khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 10, 2008 19:49:39 GMT -6
You may have read my post on "Too much toe in need expert advice" Well I really wanted to find an easy way of doing just that. I believe I did. I didn't want to mess with trying to turn the bent axles with pliers. So I took each axle before I bent them and cut a slot on the end with my dremell tool. The end of the axles look just like a small strait bladed screw. Being careful not to cut into the inside of the head where the wheel rides. I installed the axles and rotated each axle with a small screw driver. It worked real easy and was fast to tweak them in. I set up the rear wheels with just enough camber to just get the wheels on the axle head. The toe in for rail riding was fast too. Maybe it's been done before?
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Post by DerbyDoc.com on Jun 10, 2008 20:05:33 GMT -6
You may have read my post on "Too much toe in need expert advice" Well I really wanted to find an easy way of doing just that. I believe I did. I didn't want to mess with trying to turn the bent axles with pliers. So I took each axle before I bent them and cut a slot on the end with my dremell tool. The end of the axles look just like a small strait bladed screw. Being careful not to cut into the inside of the head where the wheel rides. I installed the axles and rotated each axle with a small screw driver. It worked real easy and was fast to tweak them in. I set up the rear wheels with just enough camber to just get the wheels on the axle head. The toe in for rail riding was fast too. Maybe it's been done before? That is an excellent idea. I actually pull my axles out and rotate. Im gonna give this a try for sure. Thanks for the tip.
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 10, 2008 20:09:03 GMT -6
I practiced on one axle and became an expert at cutting the groove. With your talent you could just go for it!
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Sappington R
Head in the Pine
"The Sappster" 10oz
Posts: 210
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Post by Sappington R on Jun 10, 2008 21:44:35 GMT -6
khouse, this is the most innovative tip that I have seen in a long time As far as I know, you own it! I need to go back and check some of the BSA rules, but as far as I know- it's legal for league racing. Great idea!!!
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Post by 3cubdad on Jun 10, 2008 21:57:16 GMT -6
khouse,
Not only is that a great idea for tweaking the alignment, you don't have to worry about your "alignment mark" wearing off!
Thanks!
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 10, 2008 22:19:07 GMT -6
I bent the axle in line with the slot. That way you always have a reference. I see that I may have cut this slot a little deep. I put a pencil mark on the body to help me put the alignment back if it gets hit or for repairs.
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Jun 11, 2008 5:42:43 GMT -6
Awesome idea! I exalt thee. Good for a karma vote! Beakerboysracing
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docb
Addicted to Speed
Atlas Derby Cars
Posts: 100
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Post by docb on Jun 11, 2008 7:15:02 GMT -6
I use a set of tooth-less needle nose pliers that I coated with plastic coating. This allows you to grab and turn the axle without damaging the head. I have tried the cutting a slot in the axle head technique before but got lazy and the coated needle nose seems to work just as well.
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 11, 2008 7:43:55 GMT -6
If you run the wheel clearance at 1/16 of an inch I can't see how you could grab the axle head with pliers without first pulling the axles out a bit each time? I cut slots in 16 axles in 5 minutes. It just takes about 3 seconds per axle plus clamping them up.
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docb
Addicted to Speed
Atlas Derby Cars
Posts: 100
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Post by docb on Jun 11, 2008 8:36:03 GMT -6
Now I feel really lazy! I guess it is because I don't have a shop...Whenever I work on cars I have to pull everything out, lay it all on the dining room table then put it all away when I am done. For anyone who is like me, it is another alternative, you just have to find the right size needle nose. I use small gaps between the wheel/body and I don't have any problem grabbing the axle head Khouse, you are obviously very ingenious...I hope it didn't sound like I was trying to take that away from you...I often wondered why someone hasn't come up with making and selling finished axles with slots already in them. Here's your chance to cash in khouse...get the patent ready
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 11, 2008 19:28:36 GMT -6
Docb, I didn't think that at all. I just couldn't see how I could grab the axle head with any plier I had. I don't have a shop either. My 2 car garage is full of crap. So I took the drill press out of the shop and took it to my basement. I layed it down on it side on my bar and made it a lathe. I turned all my wheels to 1.2 to 1.3 grams. The pool table if full of supplies too. It just a mess! That's just to build 4 cars. There's plastic shavings all the way up the carpet steps. Dust all over everything using my belt sander. It will take me days to clean it up! But after finding this forum and using the tips all of you have provided I think I have some faster cars. I did come up with a couple of tools that Racer might want to "BUY" from me! LOL! But no kidding I thought up two tools that could be built and sold. It would make things a lot easier. I looked into patents a couple of times and was overwhelmed with the forms. I have a lot of ideas but not enough cash to proceed. Good racing to all!
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Sappington R
Head in the Pine
"The Sappster" 10oz
Posts: 210
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Post by Sappington R on Jun 12, 2008 16:44:06 GMT -6
K, this was really a great idea that you shared. I tried it and I like it! The other way that Doc describes is also a good technique. Doc- where did you get a coating for your Needle nose? I have used the regular needle nose and for sure it scars the head of the axle- however, no with a tapered head it doesn't make contact anyway- but you need to be really careful. I am going to build my next car with K's method, maybe even re-tune a few of the others. Thanks again for the tip.
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 12, 2008 17:33:37 GMT -6
SappingtonR, I had set up all 4 cars that deviated 2 inches per 4 foot for Rail rider. I had a hard time getting my head around the idea of rail riding to begin with. Then last night I read where the perfect rail rider slowly eases into the rail at about the end of the race. This makes sense to me. Having a car that turns so slow that it runs almost strait until the end of the race. So last night with my axles I turned my front wheel where there is only 1/2 inch run out in 8 foot. This adjustment only took about 10 minutes for all 4 cars with the screw driver.
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Post by RacerX on Jun 13, 2008 7:58:32 GMT -6
Khouse,
Where did you read this? It is virtually imposiable to achieve easing into the rail by the end of the race, that would be a 1" drift over 42" with a transition from ramp to flat with no interuption, WOW!!!! We shoot for 1" over 6' as a base line (every car is a little different at speed) which means you should be on the rail for the stability through the transition.
Racer X
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 13, 2008 8:23:01 GMT -6
Racer, It is post #9 here www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=205952I did have my cars running a 1 inch drift over 4 feet. I understand the rail rider concept but I'm having a hard time finding the base line for the adjustment. You said that 1 inch in 6 feet is good. If you have had good luck with that then I can easily make that adjustment with a screw driver. Kenny
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Post by RacerX on Jun 13, 2008 8:47:27 GMT -6
Oh, NOW I SEE THE PROB!!!! That is just Tory babbling, ignore him!! We use 6' as a base line, remember, at speed, every car has it's own chacteristics and will require a little more or less rail load for max speed. We have found that sticking with the 1" over 6' is not only a good starting point that usually tunes in quickly, but is easy to go back to on the tuning table for a reference if you get too far off base while adjusting on the track. Racer X
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Post by DerbyDoc.com on Jun 13, 2008 14:39:47 GMT -6
I never said anything about pulling in at 42 ft. That would be a "true" straight runner. I dont even think that would be possible. Ive built and tested over 200 cars, and I always have best luck with pulling in slightly around 6 ft. But on my league cars, I will try to achieve slight pull at around 8 ft. Youll find your own sweet spot. Good luck, Tory
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 13, 2008 16:37:46 GMT -6
OK, so I'm going to tune the cars with a 1 inch drift between 6 and 8 feet. This should do it! Also I have been thinking about this rail riding all day. It seems to me that the rear wheel alignment is real important. I have the right wheel pulling into the the rail and the left wheel raised. So in my mind I see a car body going down the track at a slight angle. This will make the rear wheels scrub as they run because they will be in line with the body. It seems to me that I need to steer the rear wheels slightly to the right. This way they are tracking down the track strait even though the body of the car is at an angle. True?
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Post by DerbyDoc.com on Jun 13, 2008 17:32:06 GMT -6
OK, so I'm going to tune the cars with a 1 inch drift between 6 and 8 feet. This should do it! Also I have been thinking about this rail riding all day. It seems to me that the rear wheel alignment is real important. I have the right wheel pulling into the the rail and the left wheel raised. So in my mind I see a car body going down the track at a slight angle. This will make the rear wheels scrub as they run because they will be in line with the body. It seems to me that I need to steer the rear wheels slightly to the right. This way they are tracking down the track strait even though the body of the car is at an angle. True? With such a slight pull, the rear wheels will usually stay off the rail. Another thing is that you want your wheels to migrate out to the axle heads. A good alignment always starts with working on the rear wheels first. Get them to run as straight as possible, then use your front dominate to steer. Also I always put the fastest 2 wheels in the rear.
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Jun 13, 2008 17:41:55 GMT -6
Khouse, The idea of rail riding is to minimize the amount of contact with the center guide rail. In a perfect situation, you would want the car to travel the entire distance without touching the center guide. This situation is imposible because of several factors including alignment, track setup, level of track, and so on. So since we know that a car will not run the whole track without touching, some guys believe that the car will actual run faster by rubbing the whole way down instead of bouncing back and forth. When you rail ride, you want to set the car up so that only the front dominate wheel will touch the guide. To do this you must narrow the wheel base of the front wheels by bringing your front dominate wheel in toward the guide rail. This can be accomplished by simply narrowing the front 1/16 of an inch. You then will steer the front dominate wheel to go about an inch or two towards the guide rail in a 6 to 8 foot span. Your rear wheels should be set to run straight and if set up correctly, the rears will never contact the guide rail. Thus you only have one wheel touching the guide rail instead of 4 wheels boucing back and forth off the guide rail. Be careful when narrowing the front that you stay within the rules for clearance (1 3/4 between wheels).
Hope this helps Scott
P S You never want your raised wheel to contact the guide rail. It is not spinning and if it were to touch it takes momentum away from the car traveling down the track to spin that wheel up thus robbing energy. That is why you steer the FDW towards the guide rail.
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