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Post by derbydad on Nov 24, 2007 23:55:16 GMT -6
What tool do you use to measure degrees for setting a wheel cant?
It's good to be back. I smell some speed in the new season's air!!!
Thanks Derby Dad
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Post by MaxV on Nov 25, 2007 16:13:44 GMT -6
The easist thing I have found is to place a drill bit between the bottom of the block and the drill press fence. This will set the block at a fixed angle. By varying the size of the drill bit, the angle is varied. The actual angle can be calculated with some simple trig.
I have some of these calculated already. 3 deg - 3/32 bit 4 deg - 1/8 bit 5 deg - 5/32
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Post by RacerX on Nov 25, 2007 21:09:24 GMT -6
There are several ways to do a very good canted wheel, are you looking to do it in the body or on the axle?
Racer X
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Post by derbydad on Dec 16, 2007 20:45:47 GMT -6
RacerX, I'm not sure. I assume doing it the body might be safer than trying to bend metal axiles. I'm open to trying both, so I'm willing to try your suggestions.
Thanks Derby Dad
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Post by RacerX on Dec 17, 2007 18:52:48 GMT -6
There are several ways, everyone has their preference and some are better than others.
I know some customers who put a strip of old credit card under the opposing side of their in their Pro Body Tool and get between 2deg & 2.5 Deg. and run very well (WIRL / PWD.com guys) Lately, we have been bending axles in the Pro Axle Press with a lot of sucess because of the ability to adjust quickly (We help a lot of local people here in the shop durring season).
There is a post on here somewhere on canting from last year and several of us discuss methods and I discribe mine. Look around or if I find it I will post a link.
Good Luck
Racer X
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Post by blockhead on Dec 18, 2007 12:44:08 GMT -6
what degree angle for canting a axle for a 4 wheel on the track pinewood derby car do you think would be a ballpark start ?
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Post by RacerX on Dec 18, 2007 15:20:48 GMT -6
Try to keep your canting between 2 & 3 Deg. Here is a copy of the post on axle canting: Re: Should I angle the axles (wheel Camber) « Reply #17 on Feb 22, 2007, 11:34am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It makes for a straight, fast, easy to align car especially with-out a test track. Drill the body with a Pro Body Tool, straighten your axles with a Pro axle press and polish then. Mark the axle @ .350" from the head and put a dot at 12:00 on head with a sharpie. Instal the axle into the Pro Axle Press at the .350" mark with the dot on the head down and slightly bend the axle with a light hammer tap. I use a digital caliper to measure from the head of the axle to the work bench to verify my bend. On the rears .015" and .010" on the front. Install the rears with the dot up at 12:00 as well as the front (dominant wheel). The car should roll forward and backwards with the wheels staying on the axle heads. If not. rotate slightly fore and aft untill both are perfect and do not migrate. Use slight rotation of the front axle to steer. There are several good table top formulas on here (someone chime in) but 1" drift towards the dominant front wheel over 6' test roll will get you going well. Good Luck Racer X The trade off is positive vs. axle head to hub face friction.
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Post by ohsofast on Dec 20, 2007 11:11:34 GMT -6
Racer X,
We used your recomendation on canting to set up our district car, we picked up some speed right away and found a little more on our test track. Big difference over our pack car.
Thanks
Terry
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Sappington R
Head in the Pine
"The Sappster" 10oz
Posts: 210
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Post by Sappington R on Dec 21, 2007 16:32:23 GMT -6
Great info. It really helps. I have a few more questions: Racer X, when bending the axle using the press & hammer tap, are you bending .015" down like towards 6:00? Also, if using BSA wheels, will the treads run flat on the track (to stay within district rules)? Lastly, I understand the concept of RR and migrating 1" on a test board over 4 feet. Is the dominant wheel supposed to be the one that hits the rail or is it the non-dominant/raised one?
Thanks,
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Post by Derby Worx Pro Team on Dec 21, 2007 16:55:19 GMT -6
Great info. It really helps. I have a few more questions: Racer X, when bending the axle using the press & hammer tap, are you bending .015" down like towards 6:00? Also, if using BSA wheels, will the treads run flat on the track (to stay within district rules)? Lastly, I understand the concept of RR and migrating 1" on a test board over 4 feet. Is the dominant wheel supposed to be the one that hits the rail or is it the non-dominant/raised one? Thanks, You want the bend to be pointed toward the top of the car. The wheels will be slightly canted and may not be "Flat" on the track and would ride on the inside edge of the wheel, but to the naked eye they would appear to be riding flat. Dominant wheel is the wheel that rides the rail, not the raised one.
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Post by kcbcommando on Dec 28, 2007 8:00:10 GMT -6
We awana guys have wheels that are smaller in diameter at the outside edge and larger at the inside. Will canting help or should we just leave the axles parallel?
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Post by ohsofast on Dec 28, 2007 12:08:55 GMT -6
I would true them first and that will remove that flaw.
Terry
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Post by ninjarabbi1997 on Dec 28, 2007 14:07:26 GMT -6
kcbcommando,
We are running in Awanas for the first time this year (have done BSA for several) and I'd love to hear some input on canting with Awanas. My understanding is that one of the advantages of it is to have less of the wheel contact the track surface, so I would think it would still be an advantage with the Awana wheel.
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Da Pine Racing
Head in the Pine
kamaniwannaracedakinepinekah
Posts: 172
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Post by Da Pine Racing on Dec 28, 2007 14:24:57 GMT -6
kcbcommando, We are running in Awanas for the first time this year (have done BSA for several) and I'd love to hear some input on canting with Awanas. My understanding is that one of the advantages of it is to have less of the wheel contact the track surface, so I would think it would still be an advantage with the Awana wheel. Hey Ninja, Yes, In any case & any wheel, less contact is best. Negative camber basically turns your car into a Mod. I don't think it matters at all on how you get there as far as camber goes. The most important issue when it comes to camber is that the wheels are clocked @ 12:00. In another words, toe-in/toe-out are are very important (More important than if someone was running level tread contact). The wobbles will get ya.
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Post by ohsofast on Dec 30, 2007 11:58:21 GMT -6
kcbcommando, We are running in Awanas for the first time this year (have done BSA for several) and I'd love to hear some input on canting with Awanas. My understanding is that one of the advantages of it is to have less of the wheel contact the track surface, so I would think it would still be an advantage with the Awana wheel. Hey Ninja, Yes, In any case & any wheel, less contact is best. Negative camber basically turns your car into a Mod. I don't think it matters at all on how you get there as far as camber goes. The most important issue when it comes to camber is that the wheels are clocked @ 12:00. In another words, toe-in/toe-out are are very important (More important than if someone was running level tread contact). The wobbles will get ya. Da Pine, Are you saying you like or dont like neg- camber? I guess the 12:00 thing has me confused. Is it some camber and zero toe? I saw another post of yours where you said you try to keep the wheels near the axle head and you would have to have neg camber to do this. Do you rail ride? Thanks Terry
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Post by kcbcommando on Jan 1, 2008 6:39:14 GMT -6
Ninja
Years ago I ran canted. I had the cant at 6:00 so the wheel rode on the outside. It was quite fast but alignment was very tricky. With the shape of the wheel, you would want to cant at 12:00 and you would have minimal contact on the track. According to my brother's micrometer, the Awana wheel has a taper of a little over 1* from hub to face. If you run zero cant and prep your wheel as it's shaped you are already having minimal tread contact. I am going to try minimal 12:00 canting this season on one car (I generally have 3 one for my daughter,one experimental and one for fun) to see what it does. FWIW- I have found that nye oil seems to be better suited to the soft Awana wheel than graphite. easier to use also. Read the rules with the car, if it's not in there you can do it! HINT!!!
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Da Pine Racing
Head in the Pine
kamaniwannaracedakinepinekah
Posts: 172
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Post by Da Pine Racing on Jan 2, 2008 17:17:19 GMT -6
Hey Ninja, Yes, In any case & any wheel, less contact is best. Negative camber basically turns your car into a Mod. I don't think it matters at all on how you get there as far as camber goes. The most important issue when it comes to camber is that the wheels are clocked @ 12:00. In another words, toe-in/toe-out are are very important (More important than if someone was running level tread contact). The wobbles will get ya. Da Pine, Are you saying you like or don't like neg- camber? I guess the 12:00 thing has me confused. Is it some camber and zero toe? I saw another post of yours where you said you try to keep the wheels near the axle head and you would have to have neg camber to do this. Do you rail ride? Thanks Terry Terry, I was referring to the wheels running "ever so slightly" to the nail head and nothing else. I do like neg-camber. Between the 2 post that you brought up, I was granted access to a track to test, I was only trying to say that even if someone was to run neg-camber, it does not mean one's wheels will track to the nail head without some thought. Alignment & testing @ race speeds will help immensely. Neg-camber is great if you can watch it run in race conditions.
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Post by ohsofast on Jan 2, 2008 18:15:53 GMT -6
DaPine,
Gotch ya. ;D Thanks for the response.
Racer X has said that things are different at speed (also) so many times here and on Derby Talk that we bought a track to test on last year. it really dose make a difference.
Thanks again.
Terry
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khouse
Head in the Pine
Posts: 199
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Post by khouse on Jun 5, 2008 22:20:25 GMT -6
Would it be better to run with a slight toe in and zero camber?
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Post by RacerX on Nov 4, 2008 8:37:34 GMT -6
In the house at Max-V this week!!
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