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Post by Sssnake on Nov 16, 2004 22:34:42 GMT -6
Listed below are some specs. and info on arasives and polishing media: "Pumice is ordinarily used in hand polishing operations. Pumice is typically chosen to remove layered oxides. This material is not designed to achieve mirror finishes. Pumice is also used on lacquer or varnish coatings (often with linseed oil and a fine felt pad) to achieve a fine, soft finish. 1) Approximately 16 different granulations available from a very coarse granule (4.75 mm and finer) to a very fine powder (45 microns and finer) 2) Two new low micron grades were recently added: a) “Micro-Fine 5” which has a d90 of 5 microns and b) ”Micro-Fine 10” which has a d90 of 10 microns." 1500 grit sand paper is at 3 microns. The micro- fine grades of pumice are used in specialized operations and are probably not what you used. But even so "Mothers" from the best of my research is Magnesium oxide in a petroleum carrier, .05 microns. As far as grades of sand paper: There are several standards for coated abrasives, but by far rthe most commonly used are those of the Coated Abrasives Manufacturer's Institute (CAMI) and the Federation of European Producers of Abrasives (FEPA). Worldwide, the FEPA system is more common. The two systems are not strictly comparable, because FEPA defines a grade by defining a range of grain sizes, while CAMI defines the average particle size. All sandpapers manufactured in the U.S. conform to the same system for grading coarseness, set forth by the Coated Abrasive Manufacturers Institute. The smaller the number, the coarser the grit. 1000 CAMI grit sandpaper 9.2 microns. 1500 CAMI grit sandpaper 3 microns 2000 CAMI grit sandpaper 1 micron. 12000 grit sandpaper .5 microns 1000 grit FEPA 18.3 microns 1500 grit FEPA 12.6 microns 2000 grit FEPA 10.3 microns 2500 grit FEPA 8.4 microns Diamond paste - down to 3 microns. Extra Fine Scotch-Brite Belt/Pad - 35 microns. Micro-Mesh - grades 1500 to 12000 from 30 to 2 microns Micro-Mesh MX - 80MS to 1200MX from 945 to 3 microns Micro-Mesh Aluminum Oxide - from 30 to 2 microns Iron oxide (known as jeweler's rouge) - aproximately 3 micron If you compare the Mothers at .05 microns to .5 microns for 12000 grit sandpaper. Theoretically the Mother's is definitely better. If you would have taken the Mother's axle to 2000 grit and then Mothers, I think you would be surprised.I don't believe the mother's would be able to remove the scratches caused by the pumice.
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Post by woodenwonder on Nov 19, 2004 8:59:43 GMT -6
SSsnake, Thanks for all the info. You certainly changed the way we will be polishing axles from now on. We used to do 600 to 1000 to 2000 to Mothers to 12000 micro-mesh. We recently changed to 8000 micro-mesh instead of Mothers. Boy were we all wrong. Looks like 1000 grit to 8000 micro-mesh to 12000 micro-mesh to 2000 grit to 12000 grit to Mothers would be about ideal.
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Post by drs on Nov 19, 2004 18:35:54 GMT -6
where can you get some on the real fine grit. or micro mesh
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Post by woodenwonder on Nov 20, 2004 8:47:49 GMT -6
Best place I found to get micro-mesh is International violin company. Shipping is the same if you order 1 sheet or six so order plenty.
SSsnake, Where did you get your info for Mothers polish? I emailed the company to ask and they said that is proprietary information and they will not give it out. Just wondering where you found it.
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Post by Sssnake on Nov 21, 2004 17:16:27 GMT -6
Wooden wonder, From a site on metal polishing. It was last season and I don't remember the address.
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Post by John Palmieri on Nov 21, 2004 19:56:52 GMT -6
When done with your polishing, what is your typical axle diameter ? Do you subscribe to the theory that less is more when it comes to axle diameter reduction ?
John.
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Post by TurtlePowered on Nov 22, 2004 8:34:14 GMT -6
When done with your polishing, what is your typical axle diameter ? Do you subscribe to the theory that less is more when it comes to axle diameter reduction ? John. Polishing does not really reduce the diameter hardly at all. Now, if you are talking about the lines on one side of the axel, that would/is a topic that is very debateable.
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Post by woodenwonder on Nov 22, 2004 10:50:28 GMT -6
BSA axles measure .085 - .087 usually. After polishing they still measure .085 - .086. Once when my son got overzealous with some 600 grit the axles measured .083 - .084. That is the smallest diameter I have ever measured on our axles and it took alot of polishing to get there. I do not subscribe to the smaller is faster theory, to a point. When I done a lengthy series of tests last year, of which I still need to do some to complete them, I tested standard BSA axles and old style BSA axles. Old BSA axles measure .090 - .091. If I remember correctly without looking at the data I think that in almost every instance of identically prepared axles the standard BSA was better than the old style axles almost every time. However, I did not test any axles smaller than BSA axles. I believe too small would promote wobble and kill speed.
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Post by jrzdad on Dec 8, 2004 10:53:49 GMT -6
I really hate to ask but what "type" of Mothers polish are we talking about here? I was on the website for Mothers and there are plastic polish, chrome polish, aluminum polish, etc, etc,etc....A recommendation would be most appreciated.... Thanks!!
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Post by Sssnake on Dec 8, 2004 11:55:19 GMT -6
"Mother's Mag and Aluminum" polish.
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Post by jrzdad on Dec 9, 2004 7:16:52 GMT -6
"Mother's Mag and Aluminum" polish. Thanks Sssnake - now a couple more questions if you don't mind: What they of cloth would you use when using Mothers to polish the axles? Is one type of cloth better than another? and if so, why? In the past, we have used strops of leather with our polish media on the smooth side - it seems to do alright and the axle is bright and shiney, however we have concerns that the texture of the leather may be contributing to a less than desired mirror finish.. Thanks!
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Post by Sssnake on Dec 9, 2004 7:34:25 GMT -6
I use a micro fiber car detailing cloth. You can usually find these at an auto parts store. These cloths are designed to not even leave small scratches in billet aluminum, as a terry cloth or cotton cloth will.
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Post by ninjarabbi1997 on Dec 27, 2004 10:04:22 GMT -6
Anyone ever heard of "Mother's Billet"? It is made by the same people who make "Mother's Mag and Aluminum Polish" but is about $8 more expensive and claims to beat everything. I looked around online a bit to see if it listed what micron rating it was at, but couldn't fine anything? Anyone have anything on this one?
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Post by mfwebb on Mar 10, 2005 16:31:56 GMT -6
Listed below are some specs. and info on arasives and polishing media: "Pumice is ordinarily used in hand polishing operations. Pumice is typically chosen to remove layered oxides. This material is not designed to achieve mirror finishes. Pumice is also used on lacquer or varnish coatings (often with linseed oil and a fine felt pad) to achieve a fine, soft finish. 1) Approximately 16 different granulations available from a very coarse granule (4.75 mm and finer) to a very fine powder (45 microns and finer) 2) Two new low micron grades were recently added: a) “Micro-Fine 5” which has a d90 of 5 microns and b) ”Micro-Fine 10” which has a d90 of 10 microns." 1500 grit sand paper is at 3 microns. The micro- fine grades of pumice are used in specialized operations and are probably not what you used. But even so "Mothers" from the best of my research is Magnesium oxide in a petroleum carrier, .05 microns. As far as grades of sand paper: There are several standards for coated abrasives, but by far rthe most commonly used are those of the Coated Abrasives Manufacturer's Institute (CAMI) and the Federation of European Producers of Abrasives (FEPA). Worldwide, the FEPA system is more common. The two systems are not strictly comparable, because FEPA defines a grade by defining a range of grain sizes, while CAMI defines the average particle size. All sandpapers manufactured in the U.S. conform to the same system for grading coarseness, set forth by the Coated Abrasive Manufacturers Institute. The smaller the number, the coarser the grit. 1000 CAMI grit sandpaper 9.2 microns. 1500 CAMI grit sandpaper 3 microns 2000 CAMI grit sandpaper 1 micron. 12000 grit sandpaper .5 microns 1000 grit FEPA 18.3 microns 1500 grit FEPA 12.6 microns 2000 grit FEPA 10.3 microns 2500 grit FEPA 8.4 microns Diamond paste - down to 3 microns. Extra Fine Scotch-Brite Belt/Pad - 35 microns. Micro-Mesh - grades 1500 to 12000 from 30 to 2 microns Micro-Mesh MX - 80MS to 1200MX from 945 to 3 microns Micro-Mesh Aluminum Oxide - from 30 to 2 microns Iron oxide (known as jeweler's rouge) - aproximately 3 micron If you compare the Mothers at .05 microns to .5 microns for 12000 grit sandpaper. Theoretically the Mother's is definitely better. If you would have taken the Mother's axle to 2000 grit and then Mothers, I think you would be surprised.I don't believe the mother's would be able to remove the scratches caused by the pumice. I have found Micro-Mesh products, but the 12000 grade is only 2 micron as you point out. Where can I find 1 micron and 0.5 micron sandpaper or polishing abrasive to take it on down before Mothers takes over?
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Post by speedrr on Mar 19, 2005 9:58:53 GMT -6
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Post by woodenwonder on Mar 21, 2005 8:01:39 GMT -6
I have found Micro-Mesh products, but the 12000 grade is only 2 micron as you point out. Where can I find 1 micron and 0.5 micron sandpaper or polishing abrasive to take it on down before Mothers takes over? At www.micro-mark.com they have thin film sanding kits that go down to 10000 grit, which they claim to be .5 micron. We were going to order some but chose not to. If I remember correctly it was $4.15 per kit and I was going to order 2 kits for a total of $8.30. Not bad I thought until I checked out and saw they were going to charge $8.95 for shipping. I had a problem with that and hit the cancel button. Instead we found some 2500 and 3000 grit. Used that and then went to mothers. Worked for us. Good Luck.
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Post by ninjarabbi1997 on Mar 21, 2005 21:23:28 GMT -6
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Post by colopwdfan on Nov 10, 2006 15:00:43 GMT -6
Guys the Micro mesh liquids (micro gloss) that are sold with the "bore polishing kits" may be what you're looking for. I THINK they have a 1 mic and a .05 mic You may want to check it out: www.sisweb.com/micromesh/micro_gloss.htmJohn
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Post by colopwdfan on Nov 10, 2006 15:23:28 GMT -6
ALSO for best prices do a google search for micro mesh, micro-mesh, micromesh. Go through several of the search pages. Everybody is starting to use it from guitar refinishers to hobbylinc. Best prices seem from the smaller craft stores Kit Kraft is a good one as well as the hobbylinc hobby suppliers also pen makers, bowl turners ceramics, etc. The stuff is amazing, not cheap but very versatile AND long lasting. The kits are great you start at a coarser grit up through 12000, It comes in various forms from 3x 4, 3x6 sheets and BIGGER 12x12. They have 2x2 padded squares, emery board type products. all reusable many times over. We use it on the pwd stuff from sanding the body wheels and axles. Stringed instrument players use it to shape their finger nails for playing. Approved for polishing f16 windshields even. GOOD STUFF John John
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HyperDrive
Head in the Pine
Magnum Force
Posts: 243
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Post by HyperDrive on Nov 27, 2006 6:59:39 GMT -6
I checked the micromark site and it looks like the sanding kit is $20.95 and you get six sheets in various grits, a polish, sponge sanding block, and polishing cloth. Seems like the Michtoy.com is a better deal. Thanks for the info, I almost bought there sanding kit but not now. Barry
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