scojo
Green Lumber
Posts: 14 
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Post by scojo on Dec 24, 2008 14:40:03 GMT -6
1. Can you use a rail riding alignment if you don't have one raised wheel?
2. Can you raise a front wheel without drilling a separate hole for the axle?
I was thinking about trying to help my son build a rail rider, but according to our local rules, we have to use the original axle grooves in the block. Does that mean rail riding is out?
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Dec 24, 2008 16:45:29 GMT -6
1. Can you use a rail riding alignment if you don't have one raised wheel? 2. Can you raise a front wheel without drilling a separate hole for the axle? I was thinking about trying to help my son build a rail rider, but according to our local rules, we have to use the original axle grooves in the block. Does that mean rail riding is out? Answer to question 1 is no. You need that front non dominate wheel out of the way. Otherwise, the gains acheived with railriding would be canceled out by the 4th wheel being on the ground. Answer to #2 is yes. Simply take a doubled hack saw blade or a dremel tool with cutting blade and deepen one half of the axle slot. This will enable you to get the wheel up off of the track.Your rules may say you have to use the slot but does it say you CAN'T modify it? Another solution is to bend the raised wheel axle up to get it off of the track. I prefer the 1st option. So, deepen one half of the front axle slot to get the raise wheel up off of the track, narrow the FDW side of the car 1/16 of an inch, and steer the car into the rail using the pro rail rider tool to bend you axle. You now have a railrider and are still using the original axle slot. Also, remember to have your FDW axle with the bend pointing down while rail riding, this greatly reduces friction with the wheel and the guide rail. And I would suggest taking the dremel with cutting blade and cut a slot on the head of the steer axle( we call this the K-House Groove) so you can use a small flat blade screwdriver to adjust your steer by simply turning the axle while still in the body. This keeps from wallowing out the axle slots with repeated removal and insertion of the axle. Scott Beakerboys |
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Post by Go Bubba Go on Dec 30, 2008 11:30:22 GMT -6
1. Can you use a rail riding alignment if you don't have one raised wheel? 2. Can you raise a front wheel without drilling a separate hole for the axle? I was thinking about trying to help my son build a rail rider, but according to our local rules, we have to use the original axle grooves in the block. Does that mean rail riding is out? Answer to question 1 is no. You need that front non dominate wheel out of the way. Otherwise, the gains acheived with railriding would be canceled out by the 4th wheel being on the ground.... Scott Beakerboys I must respectfully disagree (well, partially...  ) with Beak on this one. If you are in one of those Packs / Districts / Councils that requires all 4 on the floor, you can still obtain benefits from rail riding. You can still receive the benefit of a straighter (i.e. slightly less distance) run. You can still receive the benefit of keeping the rear wheels off the rail if you either narrow the front end on the dominant side or (if narrowing the front end is not allowed in your rules) if you bend one of the rear axles slightly forward and the other slightly back to "dog track" or shift the rear end slightly toward the dominant side. Ideally the amount of bend will be identical, so that the axles are nearly parallel to one another and perpendicular to the rail after the rear shifts over. You will lose the benefit of not spinning up the non-dominant front wheel. However, if you align that wheel straight or only slightly in the same direction as your front is steered, it should not fight too hard against the dominant wheel and the only energy loss will be that required to actually spin the wheel (and perhaps some intermittent rail contact). If you can raise the non-dominant front, by all means you should. But if you can't, not everything is lost. Bubba p.s. We are in one of those Councils where we must run all 4 touching (and no coned hubs, no beveled axle heads, etc. etc.  ) and we have achieved our lowest times so far running rail riders. We typically align the front steer first with only the dominant wheel installed (usually 2-4" over 8'), then with only the non-dominant wheel installed (straight or very slight steer in the same direction as step 1), then put both fronts on and perform final tweaking with track and timer in play. |
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Dec 30, 2008 19:43:49 GMT -6
Answer to question 1 is no. You need that front non dominate wheel out of the way. Otherwise, the gains acheived with railriding would be canceled out by the 4th wheel being on the ground.... Scott Beakerboys I must respectfully disagree (well, partially... ) with Beak on this one. If you are in one of those Packs / Districts / Councils that requires all 4 on the floor, you can still obtain benefits from rail riding. You can still receive the benefit of a straighter (i.e. slightly less distance) run. You can still receive the benefit of keeping the rear wheels off the rail if you either narrow the front end on the dominant side or (if narrowing the front end is not allowed in your rules) if you bend one of the rear axles slightly forward and the other slightly back to "dog track" or shift the rear end slightly toward the dominant side. Ideally the amount of bend will be identical, so that the axles are nearly parallel to one another and perpendicular to the rail after the rear shifts over. You will lose the benefit of not spinning up the non-dominant front wheel. However, if you align that wheel straight or only slightly in the same direction as your front is steered, it should not fight too hard against the dominant wheel and the only energy loss will be that required to actually spin the wheel (and perhaps some intermittent rail contact). If you can raise the non-dominant front, by all means you should. But if you can't, not everything is lost. Bubba p.s. We are in one of those Councils where we must run all 4 touching (and no coned hubs, no beveled axle heads, etc. etc. ) and we have achieved our lowest times so far running rail riders. We typically align the front steer first with only the dominant wheel installed (usually 2-4" over 8'), then with only the non-dominant wheel installed (straight or very slight steer in the same direction as step 1), then put both fronts on and perform final tweaking with track and timer in play. Listen to Bubba. He's way faster than me!  Scott Beakerboys |
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scojo
Green Lumber
Posts: 14
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Post by scojo on Dec 30, 2008 21:47:01 GMT -6
Okay - one more thing. I narrowed the front end of the car by 1/16 inch, but I did it on BOTH sides. Is this bad? Should I only have narrowed it on the dominant side? It's not too late to start over if this is a big mistake.
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Dec 31, 2008 5:01:41 GMT -6
Okay - one more thing. I narrowed the front end of the car by 1/16 inch, but I did it on BOTH sides. Is this bad? Should I only have narrowed it on the dominant side? It's not too late to start over if this is a big mistake. You'll be fine. I narrow mine on both sides as well. I think it makes the car look more symmetrical. It's really a personal choice, as you take the non dominate wheel out of the equation when rail riding. Good Luck Scott Beakerboys |
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scojo
Green Lumber
Posts: 14
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Post by scojo on Dec 31, 2008 13:06:15 GMT -6
Thanks for the peace of mind and for the advice. Race is on the 31st of Jan. Last year was our first when my son was a Tiger (2nd in Tigers, 7th in the pack-wide Finale). Here's hoping for a better run as a Wolf!
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Post by Go Bubba Go on Dec 31, 2008 13:19:03 GMT -6
Okay - one more thing. I narrowed the front end of the car by 1/16 inch, but I did it on BOTH sides. Is this bad? Should I only have narrowed it on the dominant side? It's not too late to start over if this is a big mistake. You'll be fine. I narrow mine on both sides as well. I think it makes the car look more symmetrical. It's really a personal choice, as you take the non dominate wheel out of the equation when rail riding. Good Luck Scott Beakerboys Agree with Beak on this. Nothing comes to mind that I've read or observed that would indicate a big difference either way with a rail rider. I have spoken to a couple guys that, when aligning to run straight, will narrow both sides to limit side to side movement and try to keep the rears off the rail on both sides, but if you're setting up a rail rider I don't know that it makes a difference either way. I suppose you do have to be careful not to narrow too much to avoid binding or excess contact with a poorly aligned joint, etc. but I would think 1/16 on both sides is a safe bet. Let us know how it turns out  Bubba |
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Post by speedie4u on Dec 31, 2008 22:10:56 GMT -6
I'm still playing around with the whole rail rider. In my builds and testing. I've yet to make it faster on my wooden track than with my non rail rider.
But I am new to the RR. I'll keep at it and see where it leads me.
Perhaps bubba can post a video of his RR set up.
Speedie
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) with Beak on this one.
) and we have achieved our lowest times so far running rail riders.
