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Post by roosclan on Jan 4, 2009 16:48:59 GMT -6
Maybe I'm not trusting the strength of pine wood, but when I use the Pro Body Jig, the top of the axle hole sits at about .235" from the bottom of the block. We are trying to make my Bear's car 1/4" thick, but I don't think it will be possible and have enough strength. We have to use the original slots, so there isn't any wood under the axles.
Does anyone else see this as being an issue?
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Jan 4, 2009 18:15:24 GMT -6
Maybe I'm not trusting the strength of pine wood, but when I use the Pro Body Jig, the top of the axle hole sits at about .235" from the bottom of the block. We are trying to make my Bear's car 1/4" thick, but I don't think it will be possible and have enough strength. We have to use the original slots, so there isn't any wood under the axles. Does anyone else see this as being an issue? The pro body jig is a vast improvement over the previous pro body tool. The original pro body tool drilled the holes at 1/16 of inch from the bottom, 1/8 for the raised hole. The new pro body jig raises each hole 1/16 inch . If your body is 1/4 thick, then your holes should be about half way up the body and your raised hole will be about 1/16 from the top. If you are trying to drill into the original slots with the jig, your bit may be walking since there is no wood on the bottom to support your bit. You may try filling the slots with epoxy first and the drill your holes, that will give you a little more support. Hope this helps Scott Beakerboys
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Post by Derby Monkey on Jan 4, 2009 19:13:55 GMT -6
I make all of our car bodies 1/4" thick and use the Pro Body jig. It does place the axle hole very close to the bottom of the car body. I have had no trouble with the body breaking at the axle hole. Recently, I started using poplar instead of pine for the body. Its very lightweight and stronger than pine... very durable.
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Post by thebeav on Jan 4, 2009 23:23:21 GMT -6
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Post by Lucky 13 on Jan 5, 2009 7:11:11 GMT -6
Roosclan,
One thing to remember is the Pro-Body Jig is designed for making axle holes and is not intended to use if you need to use the existing axle slots !! The "Jig" sets the holes higher up on the body, so the holes would actually be above the slots on a standard BSA body. The Pro-Body Tool is what you need to be using if the existing slots must be used. An option if using the "Jig" is to drill the holes above the slots, take 2 hacksaw blades taped together and saw the slots deeper to keep the "slots must be used rule". This would accomplish a few things for you. One it would set the car lower and two it would put more wood around the axles so there is less chance for any type of breakage.
Lucky 13
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beakerboysracing
Head in the Pine
You can pick your friends, you can pick your nose, but you can't flick your friends across the room.
Posts: 167
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Post by beakerboysracing on Jan 5, 2009 7:16:04 GMT -6
Beaker Boys, do you use the Pro Body Jig to drill your cars. I have been looking around the web and it seems like you might be the one to go to for speed help. I have had a terrible time getting my alignment right and I am giving up and buying something that will help me but i don't want to waste my money. Is the jig necessary or can I just use the Probody tool? Why are both sold??? Help me kill the shimmy! Hey Beav, There are several ways to approach drilling axle holes. The first thing you have to consider is that the BSA blocks are not square. That is why there are many different tools out there to help drill square holes into an un-square block of wood. I began last year using the pro body tool with 50/50 results. I think it was more operator error than the tool. The key to using the pro body tool is getting the tool square on the block. This can simply be achieved by marking where you want your axle holes on one side of the block, draw a square line on that side with a carpenters square. Then flip the block over, make the same measurements and draw another square line. Connect the lines across the body at the bottom of the block. Now you have lines going 3/4 the way around the block. Mount your pro body jig and line the marks up with your line on the squarest side of your block. Make sure the tool is flat on that side and the body against the block of wood. Don't worry if you are a little off on the line on the other side, remember, the block may not be square, its more important to square the tool to one side as we know the tool is square. Now, clamp the tool to the block, drill your holes with a pin vise slowly. I don't use an electric drill as you may damage the tool. Once you get both side drilled, take the tool off and finish the holes with your pin vise. When you are finished, you should be able to see all the way thru the block. You can even get some drill rod the same diameter of an axle to slide thru the hole you just drilled to make sure you have a good hole. Now mark and drill the front the same way, raising one side with the raised hole on the tool if your rules allow. The front raised hole is not critical so if you don't get it perfect, don't worry about it. You do want you FDW hole square and parallel to the rears though. Once you get all your holes drilled, you can the put a set of straight axles and good wheels in and a weight on the rear between the rear axles and try it out on your alignment board. It should roll pretty straight with the rear wheels staying out away from the body. I roll it forward and backwards to make sure I have no toe in or toe out on the rears. If you do, and its not to bad, you can adjust with a bend axle method. I don't like bending axles, so if at all possible, I avoid that. If the alignment is too bad, I chunk the block and start over. As for the pro body jig, these are the reasons I like it over the pro body tool. 1.Axles holes are set 1/16 inch higher, which gives more support under the axle and lowers your weight in relation to the track. 2. You put the pro body jig on the block of wood one time and it doesn't move and you drill your holes( with the exception of the raised hole, which is not critical), The tool is square and parallel so it doesn't' matter about the squareness of the wood. It is going to drill square, parallel hole to each other every time. 3. If building multiple cars, the jig can be set at whatever wheelbase you want and you can repeatedly drill good axle holes. This is really awesome for workshops. The only thing I don't like about the pro body jig is that you can't effectively drill canted axle holes. You can do it, by putting a drill bit under each side as you drill the opposite side, but you then introduce the chance of getting a hole off in relation to another when you move the jig to put the drill bit in. You can also drill axle holes with a good square drill press. I like the proxxon mini press as it is extremely accurate. But you really have to be conscience of the squareness of your block of wood when doing this. There are other jigs out there for purchase to make this doable or if you are handy, make your own. The most important think to making a fast car is alignment. That is why this first step of the building process is so critical. If you don't have good holes, you won't have a fast car. Hope this helps. Scott Beakerboys
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Post by RacerX on Jan 5, 2009 11:05:35 GMT -6
Thanks Beak for a kind input.
One thing to keep in mind (I am sure I am good with this since I have done it thousands of times) with the Pro Body Tool 2 you want to do all of your work off of one side of the block and stay with that side for your dominant wheel. What we do is place a sheet of medium grade sand paper on a flat surface and long sand the block flat, this will be your reference side. Using a square mark location of axle holes on this side, square the tool on this side, clamp it, drill it, slide it forward, resquare it and drill the dominant . Next, rotate the tool and drill the raised (Just needs to be off the track)
Remember, square off the reference side for both ends and drill gently and you will get a great foundation with the Pro Body Tool 2.
Race Fast
Racer X
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Post by speedie4u on Jan 5, 2009 19:54:00 GMT -6
will we see a higher up axle drill tool ? Pro-Body Tool II is great, but would enjoy to have all four wheels at the hieght of what the raised wheel is. Get that body lower to the track. I am still confused if the pro body jig does this or not ? how much higher up are the axles drilled on the block compared to the pro body tool 2 ?
Will we see a pro body tool three, for a higher up axle whole on the block ?
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Post by roosclan on Jan 5, 2009 20:10:02 GMT -6
Maybe I'm not trusting the strength of pine wood, but when I use the Pro Body Jig, the top of the axle hole sits at about .235" from the bottom of the block. We are trying to make my Bear's car 1/4" thick, but I don't think it will be possible and have enough strength. We have to use the original slots, so there isn't any wood under the axles. Does anyone else see this as being an issue? The pro body jig is a vast improvement over the previous pro body tool. The original pro body tool drilled the holes at 1/16 of inch from the bottom, 1/8 for the raised hole. The new pro body jig raises each hole 1/16 inch . If your body is 1/4 thick, then your holes should be about half way up the body and your raised hole will be about 1/16 from the top. I took my digital calipers and measured the drilled holes. The top of the hole sits at .215" and the top of the raised hole sits at .278" which is why I am wondering how people are using this and making a 1/4" (.25") thick car. That is something we will try out. Of course, it took me forever to drill through just the wood with the jig and a pin vise, so I guess it will be a lesson in patience! ;D
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Post by Derby Worx Pro Team on Jan 6, 2009 8:14:50 GMT -6
Here's a thought..... What if a person were to use the PBT II or Pro body jig on a 1/4" thick thin body but instead of mounting the tool on the bottom of the "Car" it was mounted on the TOP of the car? Voila. Lowered body.
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Post by speedie4u on Jan 6, 2009 9:12:14 GMT -6
I think that is a good idea, asuming the top of the thin body is a strait and flat and flush surface. I think thats why most use the bottom.
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JustaDad
Addicted to Speed
1Cor 9:24
Posts: 79
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Post by JustaDad on Jan 6, 2009 9:36:59 GMT -6
Here's a thought..... What if a person were to use the PBT II or Pro body jig on a 1/4" thick thin body but instead of mounting the tool on the bottom of the "Car" it was mounted on the TOP of the car? Voila. Lowered body. You team guys are always thinking. This is what I use my PBT I for and I have not broken through the PINE yet ad my cars sit low on the track.
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Post by RacerX on Jan 6, 2009 16:33:38 GMT -6
Lets put it this way, if you use the Pro Body Jig, you better know how to recess the weights into the body to pass tech.
The hole is .085" higher on the Pro Body Jig than the Pro Body Tool 2. We have been finding some blocks with shallow slots and we can drill just above them.
With the Pro Body Jig, a 1.175" wheel and a 2.5 deg. axle you getting close to as low as you can get within the rules.
Race Fast
Racer X
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Post by roosclan on Jan 7, 2009 0:30:12 GMT -6
Here is my problem, in visual form: The pencil line is 1/4" from the bottom of the block. As you can see, the top of the raised axle hole drilled with the Pro Body Jig is higher than 1/4" which is what led me to ask the question of how folks are doing a 1/4" thin body with the PBJ (that's Pro Body Jig, not Peanut Butter & Jelly ;D).
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Post by Lucky 13 on Jan 7, 2009 12:26:38 GMT -6
Roosclan,
Looks like a slight problem there ;D !! The most obvious solution would be to go with a 5/16 thick body. Another would be to stay with the 1/4 inch, but instead of having a completely flat body, leave the wood a little higher above the axle holes. One last option, drill all the holes in the same height and bend the axle to raise the wheel.
Lucky 13
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JustaDad
Addicted to Speed
1Cor 9:24
Posts: 79
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Post by JustaDad on Jan 7, 2009 17:54:18 GMT -6
Just slip a shim into the body tool. I've used them for canting before I bought the new canting tool, but the principal is the same. Too deep a hole, fill it in to make it shorter. Good Luck!
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Post by andylester on Jan 8, 2009 14:09:19 GMT -6
If you are going to use a shim to shim the block up, you can use Evergreen Styrene sheet plastic. You can get it at most hobby shops and it comes in all sorts of thicknesses. Getting a .005, .010, .020. or .060 shim is easy using the plastic. The stuff is cheap and it comes in sheets that are plenty big enough for what you are doing. Thanks Andy Lester Florence, KY www.mpp-models.com
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Post by roosclan on Jan 8, 2009 17:46:46 GMT -6
Just slip a shim into the body tool. I've used them for canting before I bought the new canting tool, but the principal is the same. Too deep a hole, fill it in to make it shorter. Good Luck! Well, since I plan on putting 1/64" model plane plywood on the bottom, I'll probably just put two layers on the jig and see if that gives me enough clearance.
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Post by the woodbutcher on Mar 6, 2009 7:00:50 GMT -6
[/quote] Well, since I plan on putting 1/64" model plane plywood on the bottom, I'll probably just put two layers on the jig and see if that gives me enough clearance.[/quote]
You must have this car completed already, but I would make a suggestion here anyway. I am new to the hobby, having 1 race under my belt (I'll post info on that later). But I have been in woodworking for the last several years and have gained some understanding of wood and how to fix mistakes ! You plan on putting a layer of ply on the bottom and if you are gluing the whole surface, it will become one piece of wood. You will effectively tie the entire structure together strengthening it. The open area in the axle slot (as shown in the picture) is an area of weakness able to deflect upward and breaking. But when you put the ply on you tie together the front and back sides of the area preventing it from breaking. I think you will find that very strong.
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Post by Talk-n-Derby on Mar 6, 2009 8:55:08 GMT -6
What if, you drilled your holes into your block of wood first, then cut your car design out working around the holes you just drilled? ;D Wouldn't this be easier?
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