nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 23, 2015 11:16:22 GMT -6
UGH just got crushed again this past weekend. This will be my fourth year of losing and not even finishing in the top five. My sons pack is using a super track Which has no center rail. I need help I'm not sure what to do.The BSA rules we are following state we must use the existing axle slots and are not allowed to narrow the car it must be 2 1/2 inches wide. I have used the ProBody tool the pro axle press tool and the outer hub shaver. I have sanded and polished the axles as recommended but have not really done anything with the tires. I am not sure at this point whether I need to try cant the tires or using toe in or just keep trying to run the straight running car by using the ProBody tool and rolling it on my hardwood floor to try to get it running as straight as possible prior to the derby any help would be greatly appreciated I have one more year to do this and I would like at least to see after all the time my son and I put into it that he would at least place and get a metal. Thanks again
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Post by sporty on Feb 23, 2015 16:30:55 GMT -6
Pictures of your car would help.
Many factors go into going faster. Builder skill is one of them.
But not knowing your rules. What the looks like and the weight and balance point. Your prep process. Graphite used. Ect.
Can you provide more info and some pictures.
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nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 24, 2015 10:35:23 GMT -6
Hi thanks for getting back to me I would love to send pics just not sure quite how to do that I'm new to this site
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nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 24, 2015 10:44:57 GMT -6
This year my car weighed in at exactly 5 ounces the rules are standard I guess for the BSA type competition I was not provided a written set but was told by the scoutmaster we are not allowed to alter the length or width of the vehicle I was also told all parts must be used from inside the kit I use titanium for the weights and try to have a balancing .point approximately 1 inch in front of the back axles I used Hob E lube dry graphite lubricant. Every day for a pproximately four days before the race I would add the lubricant and spin the wheels for about five minutes. the day of the race prior to weigh in I added lubricant and spun the wheel's slightlyI will try to figure out how to send you some pics if there's anything else you think you would like to know please don't hesitate to let me know thanks again
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Post by sporty on Feb 24, 2015 21:02:17 GMT -6
A key part is good axle polishing and bore prep, polishing the bores and burnishing the bores.
But how much wood was used, how tall, or thick the car was. is important, how much weight was added to the car. alignment is very important aswell.
I use photobucket.com. to add pictures to the websites.
Many polish the wheel bores with a q-tip, they cut the ends off and just use the shaft of the q-tip. not the fuzzy ends, they are removed.
Then they use a cordless electric drill and put the q-tip shaft into the drill and use a polish, derby worx sells a good bore polish to use, or some use novus 2.
you add some into the bore and ream in and out, at about 1/2 speed of the cordless drill, its to much to go into right now, but the short quick info here is, just a bare idea to grasp.
the goal is when done, after rinsing out with cold water into the bore to get all the polish out, the bore of the wheel, will be shiny !
Burnishing, some use again another q tip with the ends cut off and just use the shaft part. the white paper type, not the plastic ones. and some of the q-tips out there are too big and will not fit into the bore.
there are kits and bore rods for sell out there also. Many get the walgreens ones or some say the generic ones at walmart work too.
But they fill the bore with graphite, like hobb-e-lube or derby monkeys or maximuim velositys graphite and use the q tip rod back into the bore, ream in and out, a few times and refill and repeat 4 to 6 times. to get a coat of graphite burnished into the wheel bore.
If you have not done these things, they are as I mention, just a brief, short version of what you can do to improve your cars performance. many things can be done.
I hope you can get a picture of the car. Sometimes I can tell a lot from a few good pictures.
I hope I was able to reply to you in a way that has helped you and gave you a few things to think about.
Sporty
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nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 26, 2015 18:36:30 GMT -6
Here's some pics of the car I was talking about
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Post by sporty on Feb 27, 2015 2:42:07 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing. Posting puctures. Not a bad looking car.
You may think about. Going alot thinner. I see alot of wood there. I recommend only a max of 1/4 thick car. Looks like a good portion of the car is 1/2 thick in the rear. To about the middle of the car. Might be about 1oz of wood there. 1oz in weight in the rear. Over 1oz of wood. Really could help you out.
And think about a good bore prep on the wheel bores.
A good super smooth surface. Slick and a few coats of wax. Really help with the air flow gliding over the wood also.
Smooth wood. Nice clear coat and wax. Really can give a good slick and smooth surface.
But does look like alot of wood there. Thinner car. Lower profile and lighter. Really allows you to add more weight in the rear.
A 5/8 or 4/8 balance point over a 1 inch. Is also going to help you .
I like a 1/4 thick car. With hollowed out area. With 1/4 thick tungsten cubes glued in.
3 1/2 oz of weight is really the min amount of weight. I would not want to use less. I prefer 4 oz to 3 3/4. I like just using r/c air plane monokote or trim coat and a r/c hobby iron.
I don't paint as much. Cuz. Easy to add alot of weight with paint.
Think of a 1/2 oz of weight. As being about 1/4 car length.
You can give up that much distance, less speed. With alot of paint or in wood weight.
Try to think about a thinner car. 10 to 12 grams is really the max wood weight. Before adding weight and axles / wheels.
I think if yoy are willing. I see some real possible improvement and speed increases. If you try my suggestions.
I'll try and get a few example pictures up over the weekend. Check back mid Saturday.
Sporty
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nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 27, 2015 14:32:00 GMT -6
Thank you sporty that is some great advice. I will definitely take advantage of all the options you presented to me for the next car. I guess my only other question is since I'm running on a super track with no center rail should I be trying to build a car that runs straight or do I wanted to try and run against the side rails. Also should I have any toe in on the front wheels and also should I cant my wheels. Whatever your thoughts are would be greatly appreciated
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Post by sporty on Feb 27, 2015 18:53:27 GMT -6
I've never ran on a track with no center rail. I asume you do have side rails for each lane There our different points of view here tho. I'll share both. Leave it to you to decide. 1. Run a straight runner. No drift. 2. Tune to go to the side rail. I do not know how and could not advise you on the set up. Canting the rears is a must. As long as you do not have alignment issues. I can't recall if you drill or have to use slots. but a tuning board is a must in my opinion. I use a 4 foot long. 4 inch wide board and raise it up about 6 inches on one end. I use a bubble level checking to make sure the board is level and not twisted or warped. I put a piece of tape under the front nose. Clear smooth tape and I rub some graphite into the tape. I don't have but just the rear wheels on. And I run it down the board. for me. Since I only have a 4 inch wide board. It's either gonna run straight down the board or its going to fall off. On one side or the other. Lol. Many now put a groove in the axle head to turn and adjust. The axle. To fix alignment issues. Sometimes a different axle or a axle with a light bend is used to fix alignment issue. Me. I toss the wood and start over. As I drill my cant. Sporty
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Post by sporty on Feb 27, 2015 19:31:26 GMT -6
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nj
Newbie
Posts: 6
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Post by nj on Feb 28, 2015 20:01:02 GMT -6
Wow those are great looking cars I see what you mean about the thickness. the track I run on does have side rails it is six lanes wide but I do not know how level the lanes are therefore I think a straight running car would be better I must use slots on the car. I have been using the derby works ProBody tool and drilling the slots with the drill supplied. I have been thinking of possibly buying a drill vice and setting it on a slight angle and using a drillpress to cant my wheels so if I get you right the back should be canted but keep the two front flat? That's a great suggestion about the wooden plank I will definitely do that also all your suggestions have been a big help anything else you could suggest would be appreciated I will stay in touch and let you know
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Post by sporty on Mar 1, 2015 9:03:45 GMT -6
Perhaps I miss typed. A straight runner. You could still cant the front. Just be like the rears. But maybe not as much cant. as I mentioned I have little experience with a track with no center rail. But I have made straight runners before going to rail riding.
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tkp
Pine Head
Posts: 65
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Post by tkp on Feb 12, 2017 20:06:52 GMT -6
BTW- here is a good working template when running on Strack:
Rail Rider- don't bother unless you have breakthrough- tested it- track edge is way too rough/slow. I tested this last year and a straight runner is CRITICAL on this track- period. Even with a slight rail rider, we slowed down a 1/2 car length on the average.
Thought I would pass along some quick thoughts on what we do each year.
· 5.0 oz- Period! Nothing under. If you don’t have gram scale- please get one. · 3 wheeler (1/32) off ground. (4 wheel touching can still make a fast car as well if your ruled require four on the floor) · Body-(2000k grit) Super smooth, light, sanded and light body- Body should weigh about .05 oz (dremmel cavity) when done. Tape up bottom after weighting. Don’t weight with body filler etc- adds weight in wrong place. · 5/8 to 3/4 CM (must have front end at .75 OZ minimum (ex- 18-20g) Use ¾ CM to stay competitive and bit safer! Our fastest car was ¾ CM. · Tungsten cubes or cylinder 3.6/7 oz (2.0 oz behind rear axles, 1.5 in front)- low! · Front end .5 oz (on the edge!) 18 grams (.75 is more stable) · 1/32 wheel spacing or use credit card or I have wheels spacer tool. · Canting of rear axles- 2 to 2.5 degrees (ensure no body rub) · Front tire- flush to track- (too light of front end without cant due to this) When building RR- rail rider- not super track, you can camber with toe-in on front dominant wheel, but on Supertrack keep good grip on the track. · 4th wheel prepped and aligned just like other tires (it will hit side) · Lightly sand lettering outside of wheels (reduce blunt hits) Can lightly sand tread if necessary and perhaps hub if needed, use the finest grit you have- ie 2000 grit. · Weight as low as possible in the car- more stability. · Slightly deepen rear and front axles grooves 1/32 for axles to sit deeper in car. Helps with stability. · Graphite thoroughly the axles, bore, outside wheels- car body, front end corners etc.- don’t graphite tread- need all grip on track possible. You want speed, don’t care about how it looks going down the track- IE- graphite all over- you can clean it afterwards. · Break in the tire spin to get to 25-30 seconds and running smooth on axle (wont need more then 30 seconds) · Wheels- lightly sand any obvious imperfection and use micro-gloss on fluffy pipe cleaner by hand. 15-20 sec each bore. Micro-gloss is just a good plastic polish. · Wheel bore- after clothing/cleaning inside bore from micro-gloss, burnish in graphite with fluffy pipe cleaner in drill on SLOW. · Axels- sand with file to eliminate flash. Then use 400, 600, 800, 1200, 2000 (Walmart has up to 2k grit), grit- 10-15 seconds each on each axle. Don’t reduce axle size! Some professionals go up to 12k grit. My opinion is that I have not seen significant if any, increase in times and it opens the door for more reduction on axle size which is what you don’t want to do. I'll let the experts add their experience on this or other points if desired- :bigups: · Axles- use chrome polish- IE- Monkey Dust/your choice to polish axles (derbyworx...) completely. Set axles in 91% alcohol for 1 hour then clean/dry with fine cloth. · Alignment- don’t drill and use axels- (per rules) We use gap/alignment tool, eye test and shims to align car. Then we use hardwood floor for 8-10 feet to ensure it’s straight runner. You can use a tuning board and do a skid test to first ensure your rear wheels are aligned first. Don’t use Super Glue up front while aligning if you can help it. Get back wheels aligned first then have the DFW- dominant front wheel aligned last. This should be the main steering wheel and control the front. Should be flush on super track while rear wheels can have 2-2.5 degrees camber. Spacing- use credit card for wheel to axle spacing. Lastly, when rolling the car front and back, the wheels should head out to the axles. If they don’t, it’s not perfectly aligned. Make sure it runs perfectly straight and also that the wheel go out to axles head. You can use a test running board to dial in on this. · Move Back of car to front- move .3 from back of car to front as this helps move COM further back. · Leave front of car fairly square- no sharp point as end may miss sensor. If you ever go to district on best track for example, not as big of a deal. · Graphite, graphite, graphite…..this track knocks it off- be generous. Work it in 2-3 times prior to race day. Don’t overdue though as too much will increase bore size and no need to use dremmel with soft head to spin wheels. · Leave body area by axle bare- no paint- just graphite! · No need for RR (Rail rider- we’ve tested- wont work on this track)
· You do these things above- you have squeezed just about everything out of a car for the SuperTrack! · (Should run late 2.9’s/3.0 on old track or 3.4/5’s on new longer track.
If you aren’t getting these times, then something is off- let me know and I can help if needed. · *Note- you do all of these things however- you are living on the edge for the STrack- car may shimmy due too light front end or miss aligned rear wheel considering all things aggressive, can either shimmy or go off Track- this is the balance! When in doubt, go a “touch” more best practice/conservative! Again, I can help if needed.
· (However- 3/4 inch’ CM, 3.5 oz tungsten, 3 wheeler, polished axles and wheels and straight runner) Even this will produce a VERY FAST car and your just about assured that it will stay on the track. Key also is having at least .75 oz weight on front end. We have gone .05 and it stayed on the track-barely, but this I believe hinders stability. We have went 5/8 on Com and just about found the sweet spot. But other aspects factor in here and stay conservative if super track is new to you.
Also- check to see if your pack has the End Garage with the new memory foam. If it does not- tell them to get with owner of Strack and he may even send one for free or they buy it- its worth it. If they don't have the newer memory foam garage, plan on your son's axle getting bent after each race- it's brutal!!! New starter, updated Software and Garage are key.
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