4 wheels touching

[mike141]

I am wondering the best performing set up for 4 wheels touching rule. I understand rail rider is able to be done but harder to get right but what would be better if one were to run straight. Would you still canter if so how much front and back etc. this would be on a best track. Thanks in advance for any help.

[sporty]

4 wheel rail rider is the way to go.
but I understand you are asking about how best to do a straight runner.

A very important part of strait runner. Is great alignment.
Certainly a test board is needed..

You have to ensure the rear wheels are great. What I recommend. Is a 4 foot long board. 4 inches wide or wider. Raised up off the ground 5 to 7 inches. With just the rears on the car. A piece of clear 3 tape. Under the nose. Front of car with some graphite rubbed into the tape.

And run the car down the board. To make sure the wheels for the rear are true and straight.

Car should go all the way down the board. Straight down in a straight line.

Then I add a wheel to the front and run down board again. Needs to go straight down the board. I then take that front wheel off. Before doing so. Mark With A Marker On The Axle head. So when I put it back on. I'm close to the way that it was.

I put on the opposite wheel on the front. Same process.

It's alot more work then a rail rider. But you didn't mention if you had to have all four wheels touching or just three ?

Much of what we did. Required 4 wheels touching. And we also narrow the front end 1/16th of a inch on each side of the front axle hole area.

And you can. Can't the rears.but the front is harder to do with straight runner. But can be done. same cant. As the rears.

[mike141]

Thanks for the advice. Am I right or wrong about the 4 wheel rail rider being hard? How much more work is it to set up rail rider correctly with 4 wheels touching. I tried the 4 wheel rail rider and I think it was a fail as one of my sons cars wasn't even in the top 3 but I don't know if I did it right.

[sporty]

I've guided a few people thru it. Who went on to win and do well.

I came up with my own process that I have shared for several years now.

I don't think it hard. Cuz alot of the trial and error. I had to do. To find a way to make it work. I knew no one before me. Or found anything. So I learned a way by trying several hours of track testing and tinkering.

The key to 4 wheel rail riding is this :

You can cant. The rears 2.5 degrees or 2.7 degrees. If you are allowed to cant.

The key is the front..

What I mean is that.

The front rail rider will ride the rail but with only 75% of the steer. The left non rail rider wheel. Has to have some mild toe out to hold the rail rider wheel to the rail.

If you don't do that. With that type ofpercentage. Then you will have problems.

See I came up with that. Because for four wheels to touch.

Typically the rail rider wheel needs 3 1/4 inch of drift at 4 feet.

However. The bend in the axle to give you that amount of cant. Causes the other from wheel not to touch !

And if it does not touch. You don't pass inspection.

So for example:

The rail rider wheel (take the other from wheel off for now )
And tune it to drift 2 1/2 inchs at 4 feet.

mark the axle head with a marker. So you know where it's at and can get it close to the same spot.
Cuz now you take it off.

You put that non rail rider wheel back on. And you have that drift 3/4 of a inch at 4 feet.

The goal is to have that non Dom wheel help keep the dominant wheel to the rail.

You also have to do that. Because as I said if you try and have 1 wheel ride the rail . Like a 3 wheel car does. The bend in the axle. Will cause the other wheel not to touch.


Now. Yes sounds hard. But the key is taking the time to prep some extra axles. 3 or 4. And do 1 at a different bend.

example 1/4 degree, 1/2 degree. 1 degree and 1 1/2 degree.

Now ya say. Well how do I know to get those numbers.

Well I just lightly bent the axle. Using the derby worx axle bender with the 1.5 and 2.5. But I just used the 1.5 degree side. But hit it lighter. To get less bend.


Now_
some have asked me. Or said. I can get the rail rider wheel to drift the 3 1/2 at 4 feet. and my other wheel touch ground. so. They think. I'm good right ? . It works.

Wrong.

See. The other wheel. Will go in to the body and rub on the body the hole time during the race.and can even push the other wheel off the rail..

Trust me. Tried it. Many ways.

So that non Dom wheel. With a little toe out. As I said 3/4 a inch at 4 feet. Also keeps the wheel on the axle head and away from the body.

I use my kitchen floor. To tune. I just take a tape measure and mark out 4 feet. Straight line. Using a wall as my guide to make a straight line. You can use masking tape.

Then at 4 feet. Going to the left over a straight line. And then marking it like a ruler. For 1/4 inch . Ect. Doing this for 4 inchs.

And when the rail rider crosses on that. I know what my drift is.

Now people do it different then me. Many use a raised surface or something smoother.then a vinyl floor.
I don't think there is a wrong way. As long as you have a way to measure your drift.

Remember. Canting rears. The axle is bending up.. the wheel angles out. If you looked at it eye level. The lower part of the wheel angles out.

However in the front. The cant is opposite. The wheel is lowering ! Lowering down. This raisea the front end up higher.

This is why. As I said. If you use to much bend on that axle. The other wheel won't touch the track.
and if u try and bend the axle so that wheel touchs. It will cause that wheel to go into the car body and rub. As I mentioned before.

It's all about having extra axles at different bends to get it to work right.

Remember. Rail rider wheel does 70 to 75% . The non Dom front wheel. Is going to do 15% to 25%

I can't give consistent numbers or exact. Because every car is different.

Sometimes I could go 90% and 10%. Which was my fastest cars.

Still holds track record going on 6 years now. And prior to that. At out pack. We set new track record every year we raced.

But that stuff don't help you none.

a track tuning is always the best method to get the fastest set up. Especially a track like the one you will actu ally do racing on.

However. 3 1/4, 3 1/2 drift at 4 feet is a pretty standard and safe number. To do. If you don't have a way to tune with a track.

And keep in mind. A wooden track needs more drift then a aluminum one. Due to the arch. Most wood tracks have a steeper arch. Then aluminum.

I only point this out. So you know. That if yoy are racing on a aluminum track. You want to super tune on one also.

Either way. The info I have just mentioned will work. It might be more work then you want to try. Over the other.

Always could build two cars. One each way and ask before the race to run them against each other to decide. Which one is faster.
some packs let you do this. Do 1 run to make sure it runs okay.

Our pack did. They just didn't have the timer turned on.

[mike141]

Thank you very much. Very informative and I can't wait to try some stuff out. I have the derby worx axle bender so having a lot of different axles with different bends shouldn't be a problem and I hope I can get it tuned in. Thanks again you have been a big help in understanding the ins and outs of both sides of set up and performance.

[sporty]

No problem. I've been wanting to do some new videos. In relationship to 4 on the floor rail rider.

Often I don't have a extra set of hands and the only video camera I got is on my phone.

I've got some older pictures. I use my phone now so much. I can't seem to be able to copy and Paiste url from photobucket. I've tried. With phone.

So. The smart phone is not so smart. Or me.