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Post by bahlerszoo on May 18, 2004 14:57:03 GMT -6
I have read many tips and tricks on making a fast car. They all tell you to test the car on a flat surface. The car should go straight 8-10 feet. If it doesn't, you should align the wheels. How do I align the wheels?
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 18, 2004 18:44:54 GMT -6
Darby Master or Mike may be our best guys to answer this one. I will email them and see if they can hook you up!
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Post by parrish on May 19, 2004 4:34:18 GMT -6
How do I align the wheels? Good question. First, if you can, drill holes instead of using the axle slots. If it will not run straight, move the axle/wheel combo's around.(rotate them). If that doesn't work, mark one of the front tires with a marker an 12 o'clock and make incremental adjustments clock/counter-clockwise until it runs straight. There is a shimming method out there that I am sure is a great method, unfortunately, I don't have the patience to follow it through. Hope this helps.
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 19, 2004 4:45:45 GMT -6
I know one of our builders has a car named Monkey Boy with horrid alignment, you coul use it as a protractor... we tried everything before I realized he cut the car out prior to drilling the axle holes, to boot he also has an area with about .115" where he drilled them giving him only 10-15 thousandths either way.... He painted the car with no cover over the axle holes ( I always use round toothpicks ) so now were in worse shape, oh yea and 4 wheels are riding the ground. So the first thing I did was take the Pro Wheel Shaver and take a ton off of the front right tire, now3 we are riding on 3, it's faster but the alignment is better, still bad though so we moved the wheels around switching front left and front right (rear are in perfect alignment) . After a few more things Aron decides to bend the axle on the front touching tire. After a few more tweaks it looks good, the only issue is will that axle stay in place as he does not glue it in any way. Monkey Boy was mailed to WIRL as Aron's first entry, we will see how it does there. I look for inconsistant runs, I hope for the best!
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Post by bahlerszoo on May 19, 2004 14:21:08 GMT -6
Thanks for the tips guys! Mike can you explain to me a little more what you are talking about with the wheels? I'm not getting it. PP good tips. I have done everything that you are talking about with Aron. I won't make those mistakes anymore. Thanks!
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Post by parrish on May 19, 2004 20:05:42 GMT -6
Thanks for the tips guys! Mike can you explain to me a little more what you are talking about with the wheels? I'm not getting it. If you draw a lind from the center of the nail head up to the 12 o'clock position, that gives you your reference point. If you car veers right, give your front wheel (the one touching the ground) a quarter turn one way or the other (10 or 2 o'clock) with small pliers. If your axle is bent just slightly, it will cause the car to steer in a different direction. I have had to pull an axle and literally bend it w/a hammer in my vise to get enough movment when I twist it. Some out there will cringe when they read this! But, if you holes/axles are not straight and you don't have time or patients to shim with wax paper, this will get you there. Send me you e-mail addy if you would like some pictures. Good luck
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 28, 2004 6:55:30 GMT -6
As expected in the above post "Monkey Boy was a Dog!" 19 out of 23 or something like that... Back to the Drawing Board for Aron...
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Post by RacerX on May 28, 2004 8:28:56 GMT -6
We used the same method as Mike with marking and rotating the axles. The Pro Body Tool and Pro Axle Press will your make alignment a snap.
Most alignment issues are from inaccurate parts as we all know, but I also believe that straight and round axles are 1 of several overlooked problems in building a stock PWD Car.
Another overlooked part of alignment is hub bores size. If the hub bores vary significantly "we have found plus or minus of .010" in BSA hubs" the car will not sit square on the axles. This will cause a loading and unloading effect as the car travels down the track which will greatly effect alignment. The car may test well on the bench for 8-10 feet, but things are different at speed. This is also why 3 wheelers are easier to align. You can use gauge pins to check your hubs for size "which most people do not have" or the Pro Hub Tool does a fine job of this as well. We try to find 4 wheels that are undersize and ream them all the same size with the hub tool, this helps insure a square car with stock wheels.
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Post by John Palmieri on May 28, 2004 8:45:31 GMT -6
We used the same method as Mike with marking and rotating the axles. The Pro Body Tool and Pro Axle Press will your make alignment a snap. Most alignment issues are from inaccurate parts as we all know, but I also believe that straight and round axles are 1 of several overlooked problems in building a stock PWD Car. Another overlooked part of alignment is hub bores size. If the hub bores vary significantly "we have found plus or minus of .010" in BSA hubs" the car will not sit square on the axles. This will cause a loading and unloading effect as the car travels down the track which will greatly effect alignment. The car may test well on the bench for 8-10 feet, but things are different at speed. This is also why 3 wheelers are easier to align. You can use gauge pins to check your hubs for size "which most people do not have" or the Pro Hub Tool does a fine job of this as well. We try to find 4 wheels that are undersize and ream them all the same size with the hub tool, this helps insure a square car with stock wheels. If you mold match the wheels, shouldn't the wheel bores be the same diameter ? What diameter's do the wheel bores range ? Standards BSA axles are .086 I think ? John.
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 28, 2004 8:55:51 GMT -6
I have measured between .079 and .100 BSA Axles are .086 not the ID of the Wheels. I think they are .094 but different mold numbers are different ID's. Also some wheels are just bad being .005-.010 off on either end. You end up tossing like 10-20% when you make a lot.
Racer X is the guy who actually came up with Mold Matrching by the way!
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Post by John Palmieri on May 28, 2004 9:00:29 GMT -6
I have measured between .079 and .100 BSA Axles are .086 not the ID of the Wheels. I think they are .094 but different mold numbers are different ID's. Also some wheels are just bad being .005-.010 off on either end. You end up tossing like 10-20% when you make a lot. Racer X is the guy who actually came up with Mold Matrching by the way!Do you know what the diameter of the pro hub tool is ? If you cannot count on the fact that the same mold number giv the same ID, then I like the idea if starting out smaller and reaming out to ensure the same diameter for each bore. John.
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 28, 2004 9:06:17 GMT -6
I dunno, but RacerX is the creator probably can spit that out to us here. Let me know if you need a pro Hub tool
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Post by RacerX on May 28, 2004 13:37:01 GMT -6
The Pro Hub Tool is currently .095", Last season the tool was .096" we reduced it because of other brands of wheels.
Even though the mold numbers match on the wheels, you will find slight differences due to shrinkage and how the part came out of the mold. Mold matching is most helpful with areas that cannot be modified like the wheel face or hub placement to the center of the inside if the wheel. We cannot modify these areas so we need to control runout or wobble by choosing good wheels to start with.
As far as counting on molds and mold matching, they are what they are, I don't they were origionally intended to be taken to the extreme that they have been here in 2004.
We can make a good wheel better with the right preperation but a bad wheel will always be a bad wheel.
Racer X
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GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
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Post by GILLS on May 30, 2004 19:26:32 GMT -6
Racer X, I bought a pro hub tool from PinewoodPro last dec. or jan. Are these made by your company? What do you measure the axle and hub diameters with? A calliper? I also use the drill allignment tool, but the drill bit isn't long enough to go thru the block once you secure it in the drill chuck. Do you have a longer drill bit?
Thanx Gills
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 30, 2004 19:57:08 GMT -6
Gills,
The drill Bit is 2.175" long, the width of a Pro-Body tool side is .615 - .635", you only need to chuck it in .500" that leaves a solid inch to go in the block. An axle is 1.000" long and a BSA Wheel is .500" wide. What this means is if you were to make the the wheel in a potentialy perfect ratio state, you would need to be less than 1/2 an inch into the block but it actually goes in an inch. Can you explain your set up so we can see where the issue lays?
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GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
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Post by GILLS on May 31, 2004 13:59:46 GMT -6
PINEWOOD PERFORMANCE,
Basicly the axle holes are my first step. I use an adjustable square to check the axle cutouts. Next I use the pro alignment tool and c-clamp it to the car and drill it out. I have an Delta 12" table top drillpress(about 10 yrs. old), and some times with the small diameter bits, there is only the very tip of the chuck that holds the bit. And sometimes this causes an uneven circular wobble.Most of the time I can keep playing with it until I get it down to just about an 1/32" circular movement. MAybe its the drill press and not the length of the bit.
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 31, 2004 15:16:40 GMT -6
I would suggest one of two things. Buying a hand drill or searching the net for a longer length #44 drill bit. I will look and see if I can find you a link.
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