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Post by speedbump on Dec 31, 2005 16:33:33 GMT -6
Hello all.... This is my first post and would like to thank the moderators of the board. For someone just starting out as I am, this board is full of knowledge as well as track proven results . My question has to do with the "quick start" design of the car. With a bar across the front of the car and the material taken away in the front to allow a faster "off the line" start. Has anyone tried this and if so what was the result? It makes perfect sense on paper but does it really help/work? I built four cars last year and we flat whipped the pack. My two sons were excited to say the least. The boys both took first in their relative dens and finished 1st and 3rd in the pack (3rd place car had alignment issues) And me and my wife's cars took 1st and second in the "others" race.....Was fun since we took down the reigning champion of 2 years running, lol They are hoping we don't enter this year...hehe NOT!! we're going to be even faster this year....
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Post by 2FAST4U on Dec 31, 2005 18:56:10 GMT -6
welcome speedbump... If you log in to wirl you will see that there are some very fast cars.... none of them have that starting bar on the cars... I do not believe that the bar works... hey it sounds like you have some fast cars, send them in for the 2006 wirl series... I hope this info helps... If we can answer any more ?'s let me know... Jewkes engineering Glenn....
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Post by speedbump on Jan 1, 2006 16:39:58 GMT -6
I dont know though... I built one car that had the front end cut at a backwards angle and never got touched during the "others" class... I raced my sons car after he won the pack race and I even beat him by about 5 inches and his car was fast... wish I would have video taped it last year to see how much of a jump (if any) I got off the starting pin compared to the other cars...Granted we only ran two lanes but still...I think it would give you about a 1/2 inch move off the pin while the other car is still waitin for the pin to clear the underside of his car. Of course I beat all the cars so bad they ran mine backwards just to make if fair..lol I got destroyed, hehe threw off my CG so bad it was sad....
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Post by RacerX on Jan 1, 2006 18:25:43 GMT -6
Welcome to the board Speedbump, we are glad to have you!!! A "Quick Start bar" or as some so rudely imply, a "Cheater Bar" can work to an advantage to you on a track with a manual or hand opperated starting gate. Release time of the cars with this type of gate is all dependent on how fast the opperator pushes the lever. The other type of starting gate is an power or spring loaded gate. This is the type of gate used by Best Track and becoming more comon, but they are also so quick that nose design is of no advantage. [you can see pics of both at our site under "Track Facts"] As in any type of racing, you need to "design or tune for your race or track" This is the difference between winners and loosers in any competition. If you know the track, how the gate is opperated and how the race is run, a car of this design, with-in the rules may be for you. The car on our site www.Derbyworx.com is one of 2 high-nose district winners for us. The body is with-in the standard BSA block dimensions, wheel-base is stock and in the provided slots and weight, wheels and axles are all officioal provided parts. The tracks, both pack and district were Pianodosi Oars wood tracks, smooth, fast and manual gates. The starts were noticably an advantage and wheel and axle prep along with good alignment made these cars a run away, but you know what we heard repeatly: "They have to be cheating to win like that" You and your son should plan to race the track and obey the rules. Be creative, have fun and choose what's right for you and your race, you guys will be a winner in the end. Race Fast Racer X
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Post by speedbump on Jan 1, 2006 19:03:17 GMT -6
Thanks RacerX! I wasn't aware of the "straight down" drop of the pin gate as you guys use in WIRL was even used. The pack uses the same gate/track setup that you mentioned...the manual gate type. THe setup wasnt as severe as the car listed on the derbyworx site but was similiar if viewed from the side...looked like a raised bumper if looked from the front though..
LOL, thanks for the "implied" cheating comment A1. But, if it's not explicitly listed in the rules/regs then it's up to the racer to interpret as needed, correct? I'll try and get some pics posted to show the cars and get some feedback....thanks all...
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Post by patmanruls on Jan 1, 2006 23:39:32 GMT -6
to go in line with the need for explicit detailed rules... when they are so ambiguous, the old addage is this:
"It's not what they say you can do, it's what they don't say you can't do".
Pat
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Post by Down-N-Flames on Jan 16, 2006 14:03:13 GMT -6
I will say that with the manual gate design it affected our cars in '04. We had team cars that were built the same, one station wagon, one truck, (both with surf boards on top and bad flames). Anyway, in our den of 5-6 boys we were unbeaten. The wagon only lost to the truck once and the truck only lost all day to the wagon. My dad and I were watching as the cars left and noticed the wagon "jumping" ahead and we figured out the undercut was the difference (truck was straight cut).
Unfortunately for me the wagon was my sons and the truck was my (now) step sons. He got kind of upset thinking I did a better job with my sons, but it was the cut, and let me tell you now that is the first thing he wants done to his car.
In '05 Austin won over Josh, so I am not in trouble anymore.......
Woody
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Post by speedbump on Jan 16, 2006 18:04:27 GMT -6
Well, I'm in the process (along with the boys) of building 4 cars this week for the derby on the 28th of Jan. We'll build one using the "quick start" design and the rest different and see how it goes...I'll be video taping it this time to review later and see how the cars do off the line.
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Post by pineheadwidow on Feb 6, 2006 19:39:41 GMT -6
My darling husband and his partner in crime just spent the entire weekend testing 4 different car designs. One design was the quick start car and it was a DOG! It mosied down the track. Sort of like watching ketchup make its way out of a bottle. Needless to say that car will not be going to our district race.
I can see the theory behind the car though.
My 2 cents.
The widow ;D
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Post by patmanruls on Feb 6, 2006 23:11:58 GMT -6
So, miss pineheadwidow, are you a racer yourself? what 4 designs did they try?
Pat
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Post by pineheadwidow on Feb 10, 2006 6:51:48 GMT -6
Me race? lol I'm more of a design girl than a speed girl.
Are you buying that?
Every year for the past 5 my husband and son have spent the months of October - January working on derby cars. I'm just learning the ropes so I can kick their butts next year.
As for the four designs that they tried. Two looked like wooden toilet brushes, one was the dog of a quick start and the other is top secret because it was a speed demon and is going to our District race this weekend.
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Post by pwdismylife on Feb 14, 2006 11:11:45 GMT -6
pineheadwidow how did your son do in his district race?
-Steve-
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Post by pineheadwidow on Feb 21, 2006 23:30:35 GMT -6
Thanks for asking guys. He finished in the Top 10 out of over 300 cars. We're really proud of him for the effort he put into the cars too. The top secret car was a demon! He didn't finish first but he certainly did kick some booty!
I think I saw Builder Jim there too, he was showing off his latest cars. Sweet!!!
I'm sure glad that our PWD days are over. I'm not sure I could take another year of the toxic babble parents spew.
Now, to read and absorb all the good info from you guys and then build a cute little pink car for WIRL. lol
I'm thinking pink, rhinestones, flowers.....lol
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Post by builderjim on Feb 22, 2006 8:44:59 GMT -6
Congrats to your son on his finish. That District race is one of the toughest I have seen, especially with all the wheel modifications allowed.
The Cub that took first was a friend of a friend who races in my son's district. We all share ideas and thoughts. My Employer's grandson is also in this district and I was there cheering him on. He placed 12th and I believe there were +400 racers this year.
Jim
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Post by Mood Swing Productions on Feb 22, 2006 10:17:31 GMT -6
a lot of st louisianans here!!!! congratulations to you all!!!!
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Post by builderjim on Feb 22, 2006 10:53:30 GMT -6
Imagine if we actually had a council race.....PinewoodExteme guys vs. RacerX vs. whoever else is just as fast. Jim
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Post by Smokinjoesracing on Feb 22, 2006 18:12:21 GMT -6
Jim...what kind of wheel modifications did they allow?
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Post by builderjim on Feb 22, 2006 20:52:53 GMT -6
Here is a link to the website which has the rules. www.newhorizonspwd.org/basically they allow holes to be drilled in the outer tire portion, inside of the wheel can be lightened, tread flat, only one of the BSA stamps have to be present either inner or outer. The District my son was in only allowed a light sanding of the tread surface. J
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Post by pwdismylife on Feb 23, 2006 11:22:54 GMT -6
I have heard alot about the st. louis PWD over on DerbyTalk. Seems more people over there are from St. Louis than anywhere else. Wonder why it is so competitive.
Wow! The data on this site is really interesting. I am assuming there is some kind of preliminary race and then some get to move on to a final race. What is unclear if they are done on the same day and if you can adjust your cars between races. From the data I would guess you can not.
If you can't touch the car then the data is amazing. The Grand Champion in the finals was 10th in the preliminary race. This is 10th on one track. So the scout is really 20th. It looks like he probably has a brother who also competed in the pre race his brother beat him in the preliminary race but then took 8th in the finals. If there was not any major malfunction that was then fixed this is amazing.
So many fascinating pieces of data that shows how unpredictable the PineWood Derby can be.
Has the St. Loius district race ever been dominated by one scout or family? It does seem to be a lot of racers from the same family. I think I saw 3 scouts with the name Yahl in the top 6. Not a very common name so I assume some relationship.
It would seem to be difficult to win consective years with such competition.
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Post by builderjim on Feb 23, 2006 22:05:03 GMT -6
This is just one of many districts in the St. Louis area within the Greater St. Louis area council, www.stlbsa.org/Common/Home.htm. RacerX is also within this council. As far as dominating, I have no idea about that. You never know about who is looking at the boards and trying new inventive stuff. The rules between the district here all seem to be a little different. That particular District race is held in one day and the scout is not allow to touch the car until he is done with racing. J
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