Rubber on front of car?

[fatdaddy]

Hey everybody!

This is my first post, our race is tomorrow (my luck to find a site with a ton of info the day before, right? ) and I have a question. Has anyone seen or know of adding a rubber or soft bumper to the front of the car? One of our kids in our race did it this year (we did pre-inspections tonight, and another parent on the comittee pointed this out to me) that supposedly allows for a better start, because the car moves with the pin, not back a bit when the pin drops. I'm curious to know if this is an advantage, or one of those older ones like cutting a V into the front of the car worked with the old hand dropped pins.

Thanks!

Big Dave

[fatdaddy]

ichiban said:

Others have tried putting a sticky residue on the front nose in order for the starting dowl to pull the cars as the gate drops. It's highly not recommended by veteran racers as they've seen cars get misaligned and even jump out of the lane.

The V or pitch-fork front end is illegal at some races, for example it was illegal at our pack race back in January. It allows the car to start out front before the gate is even triggered. My cars had a fast start bar with the front end hollowed out to allow the car to roll forward once the starting gate was dropping. However, the bar prevents the car from getting a head start before the gate is triggered. This was legal at our race but I dont think it provided an advantage as the gate was spring loaded to a trigger and dropped very fast.

Turns out it was a paperclip with some black electrical tape attached to the front of the car. Did nothing but get him second place, as my son beat him 4 different times

[frontosacam311]

Decided to join this forum after reading this post since I am faced with this dilemna. My cars nose sticks out 1" past the starting line. I consider this a disadvantage- even though I have a 1" headstart, the other cars have 1" of mass higher up on the hill. That means they have more potential energy than me. I bet that extra PE would overcome my 1" headstart especially on a longer track. I plan on installing an airfoil to push my car back up the hill that extra inch. If your'e wondering how my nose sticks out so far its because we use the screw and dowel style car and my body is two pieces spread apart.

[DerbyDoc.com]

frontosacam311 said:

Decided to join this forum after reading this post since I am faced with this dilemna. My cars nose sticks out 1" past the starting line. I consider this a disadvantage- even though I have a 1" headstart, the other cars have 1" of mass higher up on the hill. That means they have more potential energy than me. I bet that extra PE would overcome my 1" headstart especially on a longer track. I plan on installing an airfoil to push my car back up the hill that extra inch. If your'e wondering how my nose sticks out so far its because we use the screw and dowel style car and my body is two pieces spread apart.

I would definately use something to get it back up the hill. Plus, you should use something big enough so that the sensor from the finish line will pick it up easily.

[fatdaddy]

ichiban said:

Follow Derby Docs suggestion.

It may be a situational advantage where VS. a well designed car with a higher COM you may not have an advantage but VS. a car with a lower COM you do. While your car is starting lower, your COM may be at the same height or higher than other cars.

But the number one reason why you dont want to start in front of the starting pin, the PARENTS! Some parents are already going to be pushy just looking out for their childs car, others will be upset to see their child upset if their car is not doing well, and the ones who spent over 50 hours on their childs car will be looking for any unfair advantage another car has.

For sure some of them will complain if they see your car getting a perceived advantage. Then try explaining COM and the Law of Conservation of Energy to them. Its very likely some of these parents are not smart enough to read the basic kit instructions as I was approached by a parent who didn't even know about adding graphite!

I STRONGLY second what Ichiban has to say about the parents. Our district director's son is in our pack (he won first last year, second this year) and both the son's car, and his dad's for the adult race (and our own personal grudge match, which I won, thankyouverymuch ) has a head start bar in the front, a bent paperclip wrapped in electrical tape. I can't tell you how many parents questioned me on it's legality (I was on the race comittee) before the race started. Do what you need to do, but never underestimate the grief you'll get from parents who don't take this as serious as we do. That little bar was the whole reason I wrote this thread, though I thought it was a rubber bumber. Turns out it did not help him in our race, but that's not always going to be the case.

[the woodbutcher]

This is an old idea that is getting negated by the faster drop rates of the newer tracks.
Also, just because you implement some of these speed tips doesn't mean you will actually do it properly. Case in point :A car was entered with that same "quick start" feature and he also had an H groove in the wheels. The rules said that you were only allowed to lightly sand the treads. When pointed out to the officials, they decided to let it run anyway. That car never raced ours directly, but it was much slower than ours which did not have either of those modifications. Setting up these cars is an art that requires attention to a lot of details.

[gpraceman]

As mattrix indicated, a so-called "cheater bar" really doesn't provide any advantage for start gates that snap open (spring or rubber band opened).

There is an older gate design where this type of bar (or even just a high nosed design) could give you a jump at the start. That type of gate is held closed by a rubber band or spring and it takes a flick of the start gate operator's wrist to open it. Well, if the start gate operator doesn't rotate the start gate fast enough, then the cars can start rolling but are being restrained by the start pins. So, the cars that touch the start pin up higher would actually be moving further along down the track than the cars with low noses, before the pins are finally away.

Our original Cub Scout pack had this type of start gate. Once, I remember the operator being too quick to let the gate back up and the start pin caught the belly of a car and launched it off the track. The next year, we replaced that gate with the snap open type of gate.

[fatdaddy]

Wow, how far we've come Our district race runs on a challenger track, which has the manual release without springs or rubber bands. The car that won district last eyar had the head start bar, but ironically enough, was the second place car in his rank. Perhaps the starter moved slower in the king of the hill race? I don't know, but plenty of other cars had them, and Mattrix was right, cars like ours that we put a ton of time into aligning did far better overall.

[khouse]

Fatdaddy,
If the start gate makes your cars jump back up the hill when starting then there's a problem with the gate. That shouldn't happen.