|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 27, 2004 6:46:01 GMT -6
I have only found 1 pair of grooved axles for sale right now that make sense (and I found these in January!) Super Speed Axles $9.95 @ www.pinewoodpro.comall others have misplaced grooves or promote wabble. Very nice! Anyone else know of a good set?
|
|
|
Post by TurtlePowered on May 27, 2004 7:33:52 GMT -6
I always thougth the nickle plated axels made some sence since the diamater of the axel will go up slightly and hopefully get rid of some wobble. I have never tried them out however.
|
|
|
Post by parrish on May 27, 2004 9:55:49 GMT -6
Xtreme-Axles... These things are BAD FAST!!! I have sold several sets on eBay. I just need to find a reliable, inexpensive machine shop to manufacture them. Stay tuned...
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 27, 2004 10:24:33 GMT -6
Mike,
What kind of marerial do you plan on using, feel free not to say! Nice Design for a Graphite Axle, I like it a lot!
|
|
|
Post by parrish on May 27, 2004 10:28:12 GMT -6
Mike, What kind of marerial do you plan on using, feel free not to say! Nice Design for a Graphite Axle, I like it a lot! It's a hardened, surgical grade stainless steel.
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 27, 2004 10:36:14 GMT -6
yep finally someone who understands grooves don't reduce friction! I think these will sell well! Make sure to post a link here once your site is published! Any Concept on a release date? Shoot me a set with the RA's and i will shoot you a check... PM Me!
|
|
|
Post by RacerX on May 27, 2004 11:11:12 GMT -6
Hey Mike, we can make your axles for you here at Derby Worx.
Ring me up or PM me.
Racer X
Bill
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on May 30, 2004 19:11:57 GMT -6
Racer X
Do you sell product and have a website? If so, can you give us that info? thanx
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 30, 2004 19:45:12 GMT -6
Gills, RacerX makes Pro-Tools such as the Pro- Axle Press Pro Body Tool, Pro-Hub Tool and Pro- Wheel Mandrel. RacerX has a few new things coming out this upcoming Season. Contact me if you are interested in purchasing any of his current products. Derby Worx is not a vendor but it does act as a distributor to places like www.pinewood-performance.com and others. send me an email or private message if you need anything. John Weidner
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on Jun 1, 2004 5:01:27 GMT -6
PINEWOOD PERFORMANCE, You stated earlier that grooves don't reduce friction, are you refering to the grooves in the extreme axle posted above, or the raised ridges on the typical bsa axle?
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on Jun 1, 2004 5:39:01 GMT -6
I am stating that everything I have read suggest that grooves do not reduce friction enough to effect performance and often times henders performance and promotes wobble depending on craftsman experience and skill. Grooved Axles can help with graphite lubed cars by acting as a feeder for uncrushed graphite. I do personally use both grooved and ungrooved wheels and have found different results with different lubes.
As far as crimp marks on BSA Axles, they do induce unwanted friction, they must be gently removed without the loss of diameter. They are already .085 I think which is, in my opinion under sized for an axle.
|
|
|
Post by RacerX on Jun 1, 2004 8:35:31 GMT -6
Friction is kind of a cool cat, once you have done all you can to reduce friction, ie: polishing, deburing, back-cutting, breaking-in & lubing, everything else is just dressing.
Different types of axles will perform better with different types of lubes but the physics of it will never change: Pressure[car weight] * Area [hub & axle contact]=force [resistance or friction] if we remove a portion of the axle for our performance mods, the remaining portion is required to carry the load, the pressure will increase in these remaining areas there for increasing friction. Now think about this: if you do not have a straight axle to start with, and the axle has enough bend to it where it is only touching on the edge of the hub bore, your contact pressure has gone to the moon, not to mention it is harder to align. This is why we invented the Pro Axle press, straight axles=more speed.
|
|
|
Post by JohnNC on Jun 1, 2004 12:01:44 GMT -6
Racer X,
Thanks for taking a potentially complicated topic and making it so easy to understand - as a non-engineer I think I finally understand now why reducing axle area doesn't reduce overall friction (it just goes somewhere else on the axle).
I'm still having trouble understanding why certain race results indicate that graphite works better on an un-grooved axle and NyOil II works better on a a grooved axle. Perhaps we just need further testing!
P.S. I have the Pro Axle, Pro Hub, and Pro Body tools - love them!
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on Jun 1, 2004 20:29:04 GMT -6
RACER X,
I have your pro body tools but I don't have your pro axle press yet (but I will soon). So if you have your axle holes drilled in straight and your axle pins pressed and straightened, do you still have an allignment problem or should you be o.k.?
|
|
|
Post by RacerX on Jun 1, 2004 21:10:29 GMT -6
If you get your parts right, your car should require minimal to no adjustment in alignment. There are 4 important things you should look at when building your car: 1. Hub bore size of all wheels should be the same. [this helps the car sit square] 2. The radius of the wheels [from the hub to the tread] should be equal when measured from all points. [shaved or turned wheel, this keeps the car from rising and falling as it goes down the track, this creates a pull side to side at speed] 3. The axle holes or slots in the block should be equal distances from the bottom or the body block and parallel to each other.[This makes the car sit square and track straight] 4. The axles need to be straight and round. [This makes it do everything right] When building a derby car from the box, we have found that most components lack this criteria but all can be corrected easily, quickly & accurately. An interesting point about alignment: straight on a test table and straight at speed on a track can be 2 totally different things without correcting everything. My son's best friend and his dad came over for some testing, the car was straight on the table and slow on the track, after reworking it with the goods, the car was flying. The total out come for the boy: he dropped the car on race day and we will never know. Bet ya thought I was going to give ya some big winners saga!!!!!!!!
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on Jun 2, 2004 20:05:14 GMT -6
RACER X
This past Janurary my son won his pwd without losing a single heat. I did'nt check hub size, but I did check the wheels and bought two extra sets to come up with four wheels with the same mold #. We ran three down and one up ont the wheels. Now I did camber the wheels sos that the outside edges were touching to reduce friction. This car was able to track across my garage floor a good 12 to 14 feet without veering off. Is cambering a taboo or is wheel friction not as big of a deal as I thought? I am going to try and attach a pic of the car "GOLD MEDAL", and you should be able to see the tracking marks on the edges of the wheels. So after reading the posts above, cambering thumbs up or thumbs down?
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on Jun 2, 2004 20:06:57 GMT -6
O. K. "I GIVE UP!" HOW DO YOU POST A PICTURE? ??
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on Jun 2, 2004 20:36:42 GMT -6
ok right click on the picture, pick properties, copy the URL, then click on the little pic of a picture. paste your properties over the letters URL
|
|
|
Post by RacerX on Jun 3, 2004 8:57:52 GMT -6
Gills,
Well it is hard to argue your success with a trophy in hand. Cambering, [the correct term ] your axles can solve some problems and make alignment a bit easier than level axles but has proven to be less effective in testing by several different people.
We believe that the fastest set-up will always be with a level, straight axle. This allows the axle and hub the largest contact patch and prevents the hub from binding on either the inside or outside. This neutral position will allow the wheel to float between the axle head and body at speed as needed.
|
|
GILLS
Pine Head
Posts: 49
|
Post by GILLS on Jun 3, 2004 20:16:53 GMT -6
RACER X, Well who can argue with that logic? You have been doing this a lot longer than I have! So after further review, we give cambering a thumbsdown! Thanks for your input!
|
|