1st place for second year

[spocktwin]

long time lurker (at least 1 1/2 years) and have read I think every post I could find. My son won the pack last year as a tiger and took 3rd in the districts. We just got home form our pack derby and we won again this year. My son is busy shining his trophy. Your help was priceless. I just had to get on and thank you. On to the districts in a couple of weeks!!!!
Live Long and Prosper
Spock

[Gravitycraftsman]

This is the "Place of Champions "for sure!

Great Job Spocktwin...

Tell us about how you picked your ProBoard Name?

[Sappington R]

Hey Spock- glad you joined in. Welcome. this is a good place to be. Congrats on your wins. Hope to see of few of those cars proxied!!!

[spocktwin]

;D thanks and I plan on sending some pics soon. My name comes from that I had the very special chance of meeting Leonard Nimoy (yes I am a Star Trek fan, but not the costume wearing kind) and got a picture of him and I. My family remarked that I with a little bigger nose I could be spock's twin!! thus the name!! I must say that Mr. Nimoy was one of the most pleasant and personable people you could imagine. My wife, who is not a ST fan was impressed by him...considering she is an executive VP and she has met presidents and monarchs that says alot.
Live Long and Prosper Scouts!!
Spock

[Smokinjoesracing]

Congrats...now live long and win the district race.

[spocktwin]

The districts are the April 19th....I think we have a good chance to do well....thanks to all here. My son and I couldn't have done it without ya. I must say the look on my son's face as they handed him the trophy will stick with me the rest of my days. I may have been involved in bigger things in my lifetime but none better or as fulfilling as that moment!!! The look of pride is something one has to experience to fully appreciate.

[Gravitycraftsman]

Yo SpockTwin:

Nothing like that feeling when you and your son work hard together in the shop and the checkered flag is yours!

When my son was a Tiger we used to call it "Shop Time". It actually became a privilege and he would lose time when he got out of line.

My son won our Pack Race his Tiger Year...came in Second his Wolf and then took first place again as a Bear (each year 65+ plus cars in Pack Race). I'll never forget what my son said to me after his second pack Win...."Dad...I feel like a Tiger Cub Again!"


Good luck April 19th!

GC

[spocktwin]

Well we just came back from the Chippewa Districts in Medina, Ohio. I wish I had good news. Right now I am just angry and looking for some vent. We arrived at 8:45 am stood in line for 30 minutes car gets inspected and checked in and the racing begins. We are first after 5 heats with 1 heat to go. At that point this loud mouthed *(*^*&^ tells us some parents have complained that they think I have sanded too much from the inside of the wheel and they are disqualifying the car,,,,,,with him due up for the 6th and final run. Now I am not mad that they disagree with me on how much plastic was removed from the inside of the wheel, but passed inspection then removed at the end!!!. My son (8 years old) cried the whole way home not because the didn't win but he thought the whole place was staring at him. I have talked to the cubmaster and he is not happy if they were going to push the car out it should have been at the start. God it makes you just want to quit. We won't but I can say we will participate in the districts next year if we are lucky enough to make it.

thanks for letting me vent
Live Long and Prosper
Spock

[Sappington R]

Spock- what a DRAG I wish that those jealous parents could get a life! Either you were within the rules or you weren't, right If it passed inspection then it should be done. Are you allowed to remove some of the inside wheel material or not? I"ve never heard of such a subjective rule. The only way to know for sure would be for every car to weigh the wheels prior to the race- isn't this an absurd idea.

If they think that you cheated then.... think of this quote by a very famous anonymous person: "Would you rather get caught cheatin or get beat by someone else that did?"

Spock, it's pretty obvious to all of us that you and your son have just gotten sentenced by a kangaroo court Hang in there my pinewood brother. You will get them all next year! And for that matter how about helping 6 or so from your own pack do the same!

[spocktwin]

thanks. As I read the rules it said to not modify the wheels with respect to width of the wheel and diameter. All the lettering was intact. But again I stress that my (right or wrong) interpretation of the rule is not what I am upset about. My son raced his car through five heats and was happy as can be. On the final run they pull the plug. We all go through this inspection time to get by that....I just really believe that they could have found another way to handle this. If they had disqualified the car at the start then I have to deal with my boy and what Dad did wrong, now it is trying to explain how all was ok with the world until it was time to win. I heard back from the cubmaster that the person running the end of the track was the one who complained and his boy was awarded first place! Congrats to the boy but Dad is you know where in my book.
Live Long and Prosper
Spock

[Downhill Gravity Racing]

Shame on the parents that pointed out you did not follow the rules?

If you found out others were breaking the rules, would you let your son lose to a cheater, or would you say something?

This may sound harsh, but you did not interpret the rules as well as you thought, and it cost you a potential victory. NASCAR DQ'd a team for cheating. Here too the team manager attempted to stretch the rules. It happens alot.

[spocktwin]

Please don't misunderstand I am not bagging on the parents...I could see myself doing the same. But in the same vein if I am told the car passed inspection then it is what it is. My feelings are that if the car passed inspection then it races. If they had pulled me and my son aside instead of a public display it would have been better for all. I am not disputing for a moment that they have a right to enforce the rules and my ignorance of the rules is not in play here. My problem is how it was handled. Are you truly saying that if your car passed and EPA check (relevant here in Ohio) and you drove that car five miles down the road and there was a roadside check point for pollution check and you failed you would understand?? No you would go back to the original EPA checkpoint and complain about what they did.
That is my point is I am upset that they decided to change their decisions end of stream. Please put yourself in my position staring this 8 year old in the face after 5 wins and he thinks someone is telling him he cheated. He and I have never cheated at the pinewood and never will, lets face it guys if you feel the need to cheat at this you need life.
Live Long and Prosper
Spock

[Downhill Gravity Racing]

NASCAR Sprint Cup Series at Las Vegas Results - Carl Edwards won this race, and during post race inspection showed that his car had an infraction involving the oil tank lid cover. Cars are also inspected before the race, and the oil lid cover was not noticed at that time. Carl Edwards went from a 21 point lead and a hold of 1st place to 7th place for this infraction, as well as losing another 10 bonus points. The infraction was not specifically Carl Edwards doing, however it was a penalty non the less.

We were "cheated" at our district races by over zealous fathers doing the majority of the work on their childs car. To us this seemed to ruin the spirit of the BSA. Our race and districts turned out to be whose dad could build the best car, and had very little to do with the scout. BSA is about the scout, not how to circumvent the system.

[scooter]

I know there are sometimes different pack and district interputations of the rules but your car passed pack inspection and won.

Now you were at district where the car passed inspection and then was DQ'ed during the race?

That is wrong If that is the case.

This is not NASCAR, and I do believe that BSA race promotors should destinct the difference.

If the car Passed PRE-race inspection then the car should have continued racing and if there is any problems those problems should be addressed next year, not during the middle of the race.

I would be disgruntled about the situation too.

Regardless of the so called infraction it should have been addressed before the race began or they should have at least gave you the existing runs and then should have allowed you to fix the problem during the race being they called the infraction during the race.

Was the person that found the infraction the inspector? If not they shoud have continued on with the race.

All the person did was showed that the inspectors did'nt do their jobs and if they were inspecting your childs car during the race they should have allowed you to inspect all of the other cars also .
Sounds like you got shafted!!!

[spocktwin]

Thanks Scooter you get where I am coming from. They passed the car on pre-inspection and put the car on the table to race. I could not find who actually DQ'd the car. The gentleman running the race would not even look me in the eye. Downhill, your point is taken but in Nascar isn't there a solid set of rules published by the organization that is accepted by all the sport? I don't want to go on forever about this I just think that grown men in an organization dedicated to building the young men of this country would have had a better way of handling the supposed infraction. Because first and foremost for BSA is building sefl esteem and respect. The second one was not given to my son by the public way they did this.
I still believe in BSA and the values they are trying to help me build in my boy......just not this one event.
Live Long and Prosper
Spock

[Gravitycraftsman]

At our Pack Race this year.....(65 cars) A car passed our inspection and clearly the inspection team missed the Pro Ultra Light Wheels that were on one car that was a Finalist.

I was the Official who Noticed because I was the Car Handler at the finish line. (Also Cubmaster)

But Since we passed the car at the Inspection I kept quiet.

GC

[Bigtex]

This being my son's second year in PWD, I am amazed at the non-existence of a thorough inspection at every level (Pack, District, and even more, Council). There were times posted at Council for scouts that obviously had to be using some "enhanced" lightened wheels... At every level someone performed the standard checks: weight, length, and minimum height clearance. Nothing else... You hate to be a stickler when it comes to inspection but just want to make sure everyone is playing on the same field...

I really haven't come across that many posting where there was a thorough inspection...

Just my thoughts...

[Go Bubba Go]

Apr 19, 2008 17:56:45 GMT -6 scooter said:

This is not NASCAR, and I do believe that BSA race promotors should destinct the difference.

Let's see:

NASCAR Participants - Professional Crews with Professional Precision Tools, frequently calibrated to ensure specifications met to the thousandth and beyond. Numerous races each season provide the opportunity not only to hone your skills for pushing the limits to the very edge without exceeding, but also the opportunity to very quickly redeem oneself with a legal victory in subsequent races if a violation is found.

BSA Participants (i.e. Dad/Grandpa/Mom/whoever and little Johnny) - Not so much...

NASCAR Inspectors - Post race teardowns by Professional Inspectors with Professional precision tools, etc...

BSA Inspectors - Not so much...

Most importantly:

NASCAR inspection procedures: Post race teardowns included in the rules and expected by the drivers

BSA inspection procedures: (from the box - you know, the "rules") - Each car must pass inspection by the official inspection Committee before (emphasis added) it may compete. If, at registration, a car does not pass inspection, the owner will be informed of the reason for failure, and will be given time within the official weigh-in time period (emphasis added) to make the adjustment. After final approval, cars will not be reinspected unless the car is damaged in handling or in a race. (emphasis added)

After your blood pressure subsides (mine would be up a bit), I would right a respectful letter to the folks in charge of this event and suggest that following the rules when conducting the race is just as important as following the rules when participating in the race. I would express my desire for my boys and I to participate in the event in the future (yes - in accordance with the rules), and I would apologize for the misunderstanding with respect to the "wheel issue" (whatever it was), and also express my willingness to have corrected the issue during the pre-race inspection had it been brought to my attention at that time. I would remind them of the visible impact not only to my boy, but also to the other boys present (no do-overs for the other boys who previously lost to mine) of DQ'ing "along the way". I would draw a contrast between the "post inspection" negatives and those milder (and less public) negatives associated with resolving issues up-front, and wonder aloud whether that isn't the reason the BSA rules limit inspections to "up front" inspections to begin with. Written (and reread a few times before sending) carefully, hopefully I would be able to point out to them that what they did is just not right (or according to the rules) without doing so in a tone that allowed it to be easily dismissed as just "sour grapes".

Bubba

p.s. Lest anyone think my aversion to "post check-in" inspections in Cub Scout PWD racing is just "ivory tower" stuff, I understand well the pain involved in trying to explain to your own Scout (my boy last year) why the car with VERY illegal equipment that the inspectors didn't catch (he and dad did after a race) is being allowed to continue while his car (having lost to the illegal car) is not. Having lived through it ourselves, I can still say that I think the cure would have been worse than the disease had the officials suddenly (and publicly - people are going to be asking) removed a repeat winner and inserted the car it happened to be up against when the issue was finally discovered (very likely not the next fastest car).

[Downhill Gravity Racing]

I keep getting a message saying that I am banned from replying to topics? Is this instituted by forum moderation because of my personal beliefs?

[spocktwin]

I for one hope that is not the case. While you and I may have a different opinion on the subject I was not offended by anything you said.....maybe a post limit for a new member?

At any rate your opinion is valued and look forward to more exchanges in the future.

To all: I am going to take this up with Distirct and Council officers that according to the rules they did not follow the rules. What I am looking for is an apology to my son for the way it was handled. The race is not relevant to me now, but how my son's feelings were hurt for no reason. I accept all responsibility for any misunderstanding about their rule, now they need to do the same about BSA's rules
Thanks everyone for your support and help!!
Live Long and Prosper
Spock