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Post by my4345track on Dec 20, 2005 19:39:46 GMT -6
Any one ever post a ? to the seller? that would be a good idea to buy the physics car and race it at wirl. by the time you buy tungsten and turn the wheels the time and money is more than $55... How fast do you think derby master cars are?? I admit he does a hell of a job painting but when did he last race ? how will his cars do now at wirl??
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Post by kayjon on Dec 20, 2005 20:41:05 GMT -6
Hi Moodswings, I hear what you are saying and respect you opinion however I think we will have to agree to disagree. I am not against using another builders car for inspiration especially if it is a child or a father/ son team looking for ideas for their pinewood derby race. I am the first to admit that some of these high end builders work is brilliant! Frankly, I would be honored if I heard a child say, "Dad that car is sweet. Can we try to build one just like it." Its an old subject but I am more disappointed and confused with the buyers of these race ready cars than I am the sellers. Looking back at my childhood and my relationship with my father I am glad we spent time in the basement together building our car and if the only type of car a father son team can build is a slow car or a "copy cat wedge design" what difference does it make? What we are supposed to be building are relationships! Im glad that my dad and I spent the time together in the basement. This is my goal with my son. This is why I cannot understand the parent who will order a car for their child and the builders who sell on e-bay contributing to taking this special Father and son time away. As far as the sellers: I can tell you I used to have a great deal of respect for the top builder in the WIRL in 2004 but in my opinion he has put a blemish on his reputation by mass producing race ready cars. My heart goes out to Father/son teams who are competing with this builder on the pack level instead of the other cub scouts. Then selling cars with disguised paint jobs is as bad as coping someone's name and design, maybe worse. Also the parallel that you draw between competition in the big business market place and lack of creativity among these car builders is a bit of a stretch. Buying a car for the pinewood derby is CHEATING. These are life lessons we are teaching our children no matter how small they may seem.
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Post by Buckeye on Dec 20, 2005 20:54:22 GMT -6
Buying a finished car and racing it under the pretense that it is yours is unacceptable at any level of racing, whether it be Cub Scouts or Wirl. Purchasing one of these cars for a collection or to test against would be acceptable and understandable. However I would want an original, not an imitation.
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Post by builderjim on Dec 20, 2005 21:04:08 GMT -6
Well put Kayjon.
I just had to chime in here. When I was a kid I remember my dad doing most of the work on my cars except for the painting as I had a really skilled hand for art. This must have been why I chose the field of work, architect, that I did.
and Moodswings, I have seen similar cars as your posted on ebay and was wondering if you were in fact the same person selling "race ready" cars on ebay. Though most of the builder here will admire the quality and craftsmanship some of the sellers of ebay have, I will almost guarantee that there isn't one of us who admire the fact that someone just sells a ready made car. Some time bonding between the parent and son/daughter has to happen while building, painting, or whatever the child/parent can accomplish.
Today, so many people seem to spend so much time running around that we forget that what a child really wants is the relationship with the parents. And a way to build up that relationship should be to work on something together, whether it be a derby car or something else, like playing football with them.
J
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Post by Mood Swing Productions on Dec 20, 2005 21:37:21 GMT -6
the cars you saw me post were purchased through a builder who sells on ebay. he is a personal friend of mine and the cars he builds for me are not for competition. i respect his craftsmanship and if you notice the wheels are not race wheels for any type of competition. i have taken 1/24th scale wheels and with a bit of dremmel bitting altered them to fit the cars. the majority of people that purchase his cars are not racing them, more or less as show peices just as one might collect die cast versions of cars. i have a track of my own and i/we have many cars by many builders. my son who is terminally ill gets quite a bit of pleasure watching any car go down the track. we allow local dens/packs from our church to run and test cars to get their tuning where they want it to be. my son would sit there and watch them 24-7 if allowed too. as for tying this back into ebay, we have purchased cars from some of the "fastest builders" on ebay, who swear by their credentials. well let me address that as simply and consise as i can. i am really Bill Clinton, and if you dont believe me just read back, i said that i am therefore i am!! the ebay sellers all build the fastest car, why is it fast, because it beat one of their other cars. back on topic we are down to 2 differing ideas, of which neither wrong and as was stated its okay to agree to disagree. i would have a problem with that ebay seller, if he was claiming to be someone he wasnt. trying to ride someone elses "fame" to benefit himself. it is quite obvious to the readers and the WIRL site browsers who are the elite builders here, no need to argue that one! as far as i know he is a builder that emulated a great looking design and paid a bit of respect by naming the car after that builder. its close to christmas and i am supposed to keep things positive right or no presents, so with being said, i hope in the spirit of fairness and all, the builder made no intential harm.
steps off soap box..
hey on another note, as i said i collect cars for my son, if any of you wish to contact me with retired cars and such, you could help me make a lil boy smile bright. he spends easily 2 hours a day racing cars down the track, and then at dinner we hear each race replayed in details.
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Post by slkrnsntracing on Dec 21, 2005 12:44:48 GMT -6
I guess the question is: Do you want to build a faster car than the other competitors, or do you want to buy a car that is faster?
Since this is called the "Builders Series" that should be a clue.
I'm sure most of us have bought wheels or axles, but the question is where do you draw the line. For us the thrill is to try out our own ideas and see how we run with the others. I guess if you get a thrill out of buying a car, and running it, thats OK too. It probably wouldn't be very hard to buy a car that would outrun ours, but I don't think you'll find one on ebay that will win stock or modified.
MERRY CHRISTMAS ALL!!!!!!!
Phil
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Post by 2kids10horses on Dec 22, 2005 19:15:09 GMT -6
Last week, when I handed out the kits to the boys in our Pack, I told everyone there NOT to buy a car on ebay. I also went over the rules, and told them what would be illegal. We have a small pack, so I don't want to have anyone disqualified. In fact, I have decided that if a kid shows up with a car that should be disqualified (for instance, one kid rounded the treads on his wheels last year) I would still let them race, but advise them that they would be ineligibe for a trophy. One kid DID show up with an ebay car last year. It won "best in show" for Show. It wasn't until later, when it was winning in speed, too, that I realized the kid hadn't been involved with the construction. After winning a heat, he grabbed the car, turned it over, and looking at the underside said, "Gee! I wonder what makes this thing so fast?" Shoot! My son KNOWS what made his car fast last year! (And fortunately, my son's car did beat the ebay car. Whew!) ;D
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Post by Mood Swing Productions on Dec 25, 2005 20:12:25 GMT -6
when i was a kid there were pack/district meetings where everyone met at town halls and such to get all the rules and people would get up and make speeches. my first memory is the district big wig up lecturing the dads and kids on how to make there cars and do it together blah blah blah.. so about 20 minutes into his ramblings he pulls up a beautifully stained tackle box, custom made for serveral cars and tools. he opens it and pulls from it another box, then from the box he pulls out a car, at that time, made everyone go whooooooooooooaaaa. then from the side of the hall you hear, "geeeeez daddddd, is that my car?"
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Post by Smokinjoesracing on Dec 29, 2005 18:59:14 GMT -6
I am running both a pack race and the district race. Our rules allow for a LOT of creativity I.E. Expanded wheelbase, Smooth tread wheels etc. I do however draw the line at purchasing and racing said car under false pretenses. I want the scout and parent to work on it together even if it were a 90/10 ordeal. It beats a 100/0 ratio. We too will let the kid race but not compete. Let me add this...your sons and daughters want to help you build. They would rather have your time than a $375 car.
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Post by Buckeye on Jan 30, 2006 20:58:38 GMT -6
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Post by 2FAST4U on Jan 30, 2006 21:44:00 GMT -6
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