Wheels won't spin more than 5 seconds

[Shaun]

Hi guys. Noob here.

We had our cubscout race yesterday and placed 3rd of 21. I recently read that the wheel should spin for at least 20 and preferably 30 seconds. Our wheels only spin for 5 seconds even after using Hobelube on a maximum velocity "stealth" kit.
.
I bought the speed axles/wheels from derby worx then polished them with neverdull and this red paste from the dremel kit we have. Not knowing any better I used a vise to press the axles into the block with a piece of thin cardboard as a spacer.

Any idea whats causing the drag?

With district race coming up, are the slotted graphite axles worth the money? They show a 37" advantage at the finish line.

www.abc-pinewood-derby.com/axles.htm

Thanks in advance!

[jomo]

I have these.

I hear good and bad about them but at least they are true. I'm probably wrong, but I don't see anything wrong with using a vice to install axles as long as your careful.
(Someone please comment if I'm wrong)
I recently bought some bullet lube, and wheels from Derby Champ.


I'm in the same boat you are, we have a district race coming up in April and we are trying to get tuned.

[Shaun]

How much spin time are you getting with that combo?

I was doing check-in and some of the wheels I saw felt like they were just floating on the axle.

Not sure what their secret was, but then again, none of those cars won either.

One of the wheels has a noticable chatter during its spin, although that doesn't seem to make it spin any less.

[Shaun]

Kind of amazing though that the graphite gives you a 37" advantage. The ones I bought only show a 7" advantage.

[ninjarabbi1997]

37" advantage? I just looked at their website. I read somewhere else where .01 seconds was equivalent to about 1.5" at the finish line. So, 37" advantage would be about a .25 second speed advantage (my algebra is rusty). Yeah, right!

[ninjarabbi1997]

Shaun,

Is it possible the graphite got too packed into the bore and is binding the axle?

[Lucky 13]

Shaun said:

Hi guys. Noob here.

We had our cubscout race yesterday and placed 3rd of 21. I recently read that the wheel should spin for at least 20 and preferably 30 seconds. Our wheels only spin for 5 seconds even after using Hobelube on a maximum velocity "stealth" kit.
.
I bought the speed axles/wheels from derby worx then polished them with neverdull and this red paste from the dremel kit we have. Not knowing any better I used a vise to press the axles into the block with a piece of thin cardboard as a spacer.

Any idea whats causing the drag?

With district race coming up, are the slotted graphite axles worth the money? They show a 37" advantage at the finish line.

www.abc-pinewood-derby.com/axles.htm

Thanks in advance!

Which wheels did you buy ? Lightened wheels normally do not have the spin time of a full weight wheel, but, 5 seconds is not right. Are the speed axles BSA and were they fully prepped (ready to go) when you got them ? If so the "red paste" which is probably jewelers rouge and the "neverdull" probably didn't need to be applied. I'd pull the axles back out , polish them with Mothers Mag wheel polish or if you don't have that just use the Neverdull. Wipe the axles off after you re-polish with a soft cloth. Inspect the axles to make sure you didn't scar or bend them when you inserted them with the vise !! If everything looks good, set them aside. Take the wheels and wash them with dish soap/water and take a pipe cleaner and gentle clean the bore out. Dry them completely, including the bore. Put a puff or 2 of "Hobe-e-lube" in the wheel bore and re-insert the axles. Then add about 4-5 puffs of Hobe-lube in the bore from the back side of the wheel. Spin the wheel on the axle, re-apply a few more puffs and spin again. This should bring your spin times up. Remember, if they are lightened wheels you will not get the spin time usually associated with full size wheels. Let us know what happens and we can go from there.

Lucky 13

[Shaun]

Will do, thanks for the help! I'll report back the results.

I gotta get this figured out, our cubmasters kids came in 1st and 2nd, and my kid (whose father is the guy running the derby) gets third. Grrrrr!

[Shaun]

I bought these BTW:

www.maximum-velocity.com/ultralightspeedwheelsaxles.htm

[psycaz]

I would think that the 37" number is compared to unprepped axles. That would be the only way it makes sense.

[xray328]

Here's how close it was. We were 3rd....

[xray328]

psycaz said:

I would think that the 37" number is compared to unprepped axles. That would be the only way it makes sense.

Well, they show that their prepped axles give a 7" advantage. In other words, the graphite axles still give a 30" advantage over even a polished axle.

[DerbyDoc.com]

Shaun said:

I bought these BTW:

www.maximum-velocity.com/ultralightspeedwheelsaxles.htm

I wouldnt worry much about how long they spin. As long as you have plenty of good graphite (hob e lube) and good alignment, then the car will be fast. Those are really good wheels, but when they are lightened, they just wont spin as long by hand. You can actually just polish the axles with some 1500 grit paper and nothing else. Im a firm believer that (light) scratches on the axles surface can help when using graphite. I never use any type of polish besides fine sandpaper. Wait until you hear those wheels going down the track. Youll be able to see (and hear) a big difference over the cars with normal weight wheels.

[xray328]

I have a bent axle. This may of happened when I was pulling the axles out, or when I pressed them in, unsure which.

Guess it's time to buy the axle press.

I'm still not sure how to get enough speed to get these guys...

[Sappington R]

Xray & Shaun, welcome to this board. I know you guys are in deep otherwise you wouldn't be thinking about wood car racing, let alone posting on a message board, late on a Sunday night. I'm right here with you ;D

The pursuit for greater speed and shorter run time is an ongoing process that only very few builders have REALLY unlocked. There are some real experts on this board (I do not claim to be one). Keep posting and reading= dig deep into the old threads.

A few things that I have discovered working with the axle press:
1. Remove the burs under the axle head by spinning in a drill & file before any treatments.
2. The axle press can also be used to "cone" the axle head slightly. (I believe Parrot, Enrico had posted about the risk/reward of this recently) Keep the following in mind if you are hammer tapping the axle head in the "cone" slot on the axle press. First, the surface that press sits on while tapping needs to be hollow, like a wood board with a drill hole, so the nail tip can pass through without resistance. Otherwise the result will be an angled head or possible further damage to the axle. Second, tapping the head will cause the head to increase in diameter by up to .02" keep in mind that a standard BSA axle head is slightly over .200 I have had good luck filing the head down on both the outer edge and also on the inner edge- experimenting with different shapes of miniature files. Keep filing & sanding until Very shiny- check your work with a magnifying glass and bright light. I have heard that some builders even use microscopes to examine their work. Axle & Wheel prep for BSA wheels is a lengthy and tedious process. I think that it takes about 1 hour per wheel axle set to really do it well.

Back to the topic of Speed Improvement: Make your changes, build another car or two, and send them in for the next proxy race. I believe that we are two weeks away from the next PWDracing event. When you see your cars racing against the "pro's", you will really know then... just my opinion

Sappington Racers

[Shaun]

Shaun said:

How much spin time are you getting with that combo?

I was doing check-in and some of the wheels I saw felt like they were just floating on the axle.

Not sure what their secret was, but then again, none of those cars won either.

One of the wheels has a noticable chatter during its spin, although that doesn't seem to make it spin any less.

I haven't mounted those wheels yet, but like everyone has said, the light wheels won't spin as long. We raced with these at our first race.

They are the "graphite coated" wheels and are 3.1 grams. We did well with these wheels but after studying up on here and other forums, I realized that they weren't going to cut it at district. plus they are a different color and I didn't want my son to be disqualified at district. The judge at our pack race was a little "Leary" about them. The wheels that you bought look just like the ones that I got, yours say like 2 grams and mine say 1.9 but I bet they are the same. I also bought an axle polishing kit from derby champ and it has a bunch of different sand papers in it.
How do you experts install your axles?