|
Post by John Palmieri on Jul 19, 2004 8:04:36 GMT -6
2. The radius of the wheels [from the hub to the tread] should be equal when measured from all points. [shaved or turned wheel, this keeps the car from rising and falling as it goes down the track, this creates a pull side to side at speed] What tool would you measure this distance with to the thousandth of an inch ?
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on Jul 19, 2004 8:51:09 GMT -6
diameter at it's smallest point subtracted by the inner hub ID
|
|
|
Post by John Palmieri on Jul 19, 2004 9:26:26 GMT -6
How does that give you the radius of the wheel ? Picture a wheel. I want to draw a line from the center of the hub and extend it to the tread surface. It is this distance that should be measured around different points on the wheel to ensure that is perfectly round.
|
|
|
Post by parrish on Jul 19, 2004 10:07:40 GMT -6
What tool would you measure this distance with to the thousandth of an inch ? You could use an anvil micrometer with a best fit pin to extend thru the hub i.d. You then could take your measurements around the circumference of the wheel, and add half the diameter of the best fit pin to get the measurements you are looking for (if I understand correctly what you are wanting).
|
|
|
Post by PinewoodPerformance on Jul 19, 2004 10:50:03 GMT -6
I think he is talking about a Dial indicator, probably not an option
|
|
|
Post by John Palmieri on Jul 19, 2004 11:26:47 GMT -6
You could use an anvil micrometer with a best fit pin to extend thru the hub i.d. You then could take your measurements around the circumference of the wheel, and add half the diameter of the best fit pin to get the measurements you are looking for (if I understand correctly what you are wanting). Thanks Mike. I am just trying to figure out to measure the distance RacerX eluded to when he stated that "The radius of the wheels [from the hub to the tread] should be equal when measured from all points" What is a best fit pin ? thanks.
|
|
|
Post by parrish on Jul 19, 2004 12:14:27 GMT -6
A best fit pin will be a gage pin that will slide into the wheel bore with slight resistance. You could get a pretty close ballpark reading with a set of calipers, but it would not be from the centerline of the hub.
|
|
|
Post by RacerX on Jul 19, 2004 12:35:55 GMT -6
The easiest way to do this is to use a dial or digital caliper. Carefully place the point of the anvil in the hub bore and the other on the tread face. Try it several times and make sure it repeats before moving to a new position.
Before starting, hub sizing is important. You can accurately size your hub bores with a "pin gauge" they are a set of precision machined check pins in .001" increments. This can be expensive, or you can use the Pro Hub Tool. The pin of the tool is .095", in the middle of the B.S.A. hub bore range. Find a set of wheels that the wheel fits snug on the tool pin or is a bit smaller so you can ream the excess material out with the tool, this will ensure you equal sizing in the hubs and a great starting point.
Remember, there are 6 dimensions to a B.S.A. wheel, you can control 5 of them. ;D
|
|
|
Post by clgill57 on Nov 27, 2004 22:41:08 GMT -6
Racer X, What about combining 4/40 tapped bores with bores polished with grooved axels(like Below) you are reducing the surface area of both the wheel and axels and this brings up the right hand tap left hand tap can of worms I have used a right hand on both sides of the cars I have built and all my wheels stay out toward nail head where I THINK they need to be They have to be rubbing against something either the outer wheel hub face or the Inner hub(Hopfully coned to reduce surface area a bit and highly polished ) rubbing the body Take your pick the point is moot isnt it. The best thing you can hope for is to at the starting gate is to split the difference not touching the body or the outside wheel hub AND Drop the gate! (IMHO) the key is in the alignment!!! and I dont think it matters much if you use a left hand tap on one side and a right hand on the other if you have your axels polished well enough the threads in the wheels wont have anything to "catch on" into anyway Anybody have any thoughts on this !!!!
Thanks
|
|
clip
Newbie
Posts: 2
|
Post by clip on Mar 21, 2005 15:06:28 GMT -6
My son and I just bought a set of wheels and axles from a guy called "derbymaster" off ebay and ran them on our car this weekend. We won everything at the race with these axles and wheels on a car that was a loser last year that didn't even finish top ten. I don't know what he is doing, but whatever it is he is doing it right. It was the best money I ever spent. He told us not to run the car until the race and it would get faster with every run. He didn't lie because every run was faster. I think I am going to invest in one of his turnkey cars next year and run it, because my son went and told everyone why we won after the race, and I am sure other dads will be running derbymaster axles and wheels next year since the cat is out of the bag. Has anyone here ever raced one of his turnkey cars?
|
|
|
Post by patmanruls on Mar 21, 2005 16:53:21 GMT -6
Clip, Kevin is very diligent in everything he does. From his wheels & axles, to his marvelous paint jobs, his work is top notch. Anything he pumps out will be top of the line. There is always a disclaimer about this stuff though, it's like my karate teacher told me once, there is ALWAYS someone out there that is better. What I'm trying to say is that although any product you get from Kevin will probably win, I would never bet the farm on it. And he will tell you that himself. I, for one, will vouch for Kevin. He's a top notch guy that would bend over backwards to help you. The paint jobs he puts on his cars will flat blow you away. not sure if you know it, but he has a website: www.derbymasterproducts.comHope this helps.
|
|
|
Post by phildefiant on Mar 21, 2005 17:20:14 GMT -6
Okay, you guys have convinced me I need to get a set of these wheels and axles to try out on my test track. I'm skeptical, but I've got to know!
|
|
|
Post by WarpSpeedINC on Mar 21, 2005 17:45:55 GMT -6
We purchased a set of his wheels and axles. They looked very good. Haven't had a chance to test them yet, but after measuring the TIR, I believe there is nicer stuff out there. We have some stuff that I believe is better, if you would like to discuss this, you can shoot me an e-mail.
Good Luck and Happy Racing!!
Warp Speed Inc.
|
|
clip
Newbie
Posts: 2
|
Post by clip on Mar 22, 2005 9:35:29 GMT -6
Thanks for the info and the derbymaster's website. He has a very nice site and Wow! I didn't realize the guy had a commercial operation like that, I thought he was just a guy like you and me working in the basement. No wonder his stuff wins everything, it looks like he does this for a second living. I have never seen cars that looked like his, the paint jobs are awesome. This guy is like the airbrush god of paint. I understand about the no-win possibility, but geesh I am willing to take a chance on him. Did you see all his trophys and plaques on his site? and it looks like he's selling wheels, axles and cars like crazy on ebay. I ebay myself and figuring on one person out of every four or five sales leaves feedback, he must have sold a couple hundred wheel kits just on ebay alone this year, not counting his website. Just think how many of his cars must be out there, cause you know if you bought a car from him, you wouldn't leave feedback in case a competitor was watching his feedback. I think I am going to go with one of his "plain jane" cars, so as to not stand out in a crowd and my son and I can "sweep" the derby. I don't know who would have the bigger grin on their face, me or the boy. Clip
|
|
|
Post by woodenwonder on Mar 23, 2005 8:02:50 GMT -6
Clip, First off make sure it is legal to run a car that was built by someone else. In every scout derby that I am aware of, it is not. If it is not and you choose to do so....., well I will not get into the ethics of that with you. I can say this about Derbymasters wheels. I bought a set this past summer to run on a WIRL car. His wheels seem to spin very well on an axle. When I measured the diameter across the tread there was almost .0003 difference from the outside edge to the inside edge (inside was bigger). On my car they were not much faster than the wheels I used the previous month. A few weeks ago I made a test car wth 1 piece axles to test several sets of wheels using the same alignment for every set. The derbymaster wheels were one of the slowest sets, on the runs they could make it to the end of the track. They migrated outward so hard that most times they would pop 2 or 3 of the plastic caps off that hold the wheels on on the 1 piece axles, before the car even made it to the end of the track. Maybe they are supposed to be cut like that and you are supposed to cant the axles to compensate. But it seems to me to be much better with a tread that is perfectly parallel across. Now that is not to say that DM doesn't know what he is doing because looking at his results he obviously does. This has just been my experience.
|
|
|
Post by mts on Mar 23, 2005 11:11:06 GMT -6
can you sit there and look at two cars and tell me who build them, or one that i build and had a custom paint job done. as far as wheels go, has anyone tested wheels from one of the many other suppiers that are on the web. maybe someone has and not said anything. seems to me that this is pick on derby master week. if you don't know the man don't knock his work. long live the king of pwd
|
|
|
Post by woodenwonder on Mar 23, 2005 12:46:01 GMT -6
can you sit there and look at two cars and tell me who build them, or one that i build and had a custom paint job done. as far as wheels go, has anyone tested wheels from one of the many other suppiers that are on the web. maybe someone has and not said anything. seems to me that this is pick on derby master week. if you don't know the man don't knock his work. long live the king of pwd No one can look at 2 cars and tell who built what. And this has nothing to do with picking on Derbymaster. I simply stated my experience. If you look at the last line in my post you will see that I commented that he obviously knows what he is doing. Back to the question of knowing who built what car. I refuse to get into the ethical part of that and if you think it is ok then you have no grasp of what the BSA pinewood derby is all about. I have no problem with a father that spends more time on the car than his kid as long as the kid does some of the work. But to buy a car and simply pass it off as yours, well.......
|
|
|
Post by phildefiant on Mar 23, 2005 21:22:09 GMT -6
Last year my son & I were beat by a car that may have been purchased. We took it as a challenge and spent over two months building our car for 2005. This year we beat a couple of cars that could have been Ebay models. As you say, they may have been home built, but one of them matched an on-line car for sale. Never the less, we took the grand championship this year...through research, hard work, and perserverence. Long live the father-son team!
|
|
|
Post by WarpSpeedINC on Mar 24, 2005 7:57:35 GMT -6
I had not had a chance to measure the Derbymaster wheels, other than runout at the tread surface. After Wooden Wonder's post about the wheels not being flat, or being angle cut, I thought I should check it out. The set being measured is a matched set of #2 wheels, purchased from DM through e-bay. Total indicated run out as measured from axle bore centerline. Wheel #1 .0006 Wheel #2 .0017 Wheel #3 .0021 Wheel #4 .0045 Also, After measuring the tread flatness, I found the same results Wooden Wonder did. They all were angle cut a full .003 (not .0003) Very hard to check, but still illegal in most cases. The finish work on the wheels and BSA axles that came with them are very nice. As I said in an earlier post, good, but can be alot better. We think anything over .001 is questionable at upper levels of competition, especialy for the price. I don't think this is "pick on Derbymaster" week. His practices and ethics are questioned by many people in Pinewood, but mostly the replies posted here have been product reviews. Our wheels are Gauranteed +/- .0005 in all dimensions (tread flatness, tread run out from axle bore centerline, bore size, and inside tread edge) and are typicaly .0002-.0006. We will also offer an Inertia-Lite version of the BSA wheel, that will hold all these exacting tollerances, and weigh only 2.2 grams (30% lighter than stock) Both versions will be available in early May at www.warpspeedinc.netGood Luck and Happy Racing Jay Wiles Warp Speed Inc.
|
|
|
Post by woodenwonder on Mar 24, 2005 20:53:51 GMT -6
Warp, I meant .003 I just fat fingered one too many zeros.
|
|