Scout Got "happy" polishing

[xntrx]

My son was lucky enough to make it to council. We are starting to get a wobble. After seeing him going back and polishing them again, I found out he had been olishing the wheels and axles every chance he got. Told him to stop, but no there is a large difference in the od and id (about .080"+/- .004). I would perfer to not trash the setup since he has about 8 hours in them (originally). And re-doing that work would make him feel worse. Is there an easy way to fix this? I am not interested in buying a set for moral reasons. But am open to other suggestions. My rules are very liberal, so I was thinking about using my little hobby powder coating kit or some other coating (then repolishing). Not sure if that would go over well, even though it isn't forbidden.

[Smokinjoesracing]

My advice is to buy a set. There is no morale dilema here. Your son has obviously put a lot of work into the car. And yes that set you buy will need "polishing" as well. They just will not need as much. Make sure you oversee that Father & Son project. Once you have them the way you want them...glue them in.

[ProQuest]

xntrx:

Sorry, but what do you mean "there is a large difference in the od and id (about .080: +/- .004)? Most BSA wheels start with an id of around .094" and most BSA axles start with a diameter of .086". So the typical difference between wheel bore diameter and axle diameter after polishing is around .009". A difference of .084" between the bore and the axle means that your wheel must have a bore diameter of nearly .17" which is almost twice the diameter of the stock wheels, and dang near large enough for the axle head to slip through. Is that correct? If so, I recommend you start over with a fresh set.

ProQuest/Steve H.

[xntrx]

They are almost falling off. .134" ish on the wheels, and .055 on the axles. They run perfectly true, and balenced though (I did spend some money on tools). Maybe I can sneek some wheels in without him noticing. I would still rater find a way to fix them, I think it would be better for his skills/ confidence. The painting was his idea, and I found some graphite spray paint at my local tractor supply. Was thinking about chucking them up as the spray was apllied, then ploish them to the right OD.
I did pick up a set, to be safe. May try to fix, and if that fails...
The problem with most wheels is that they are lathed. My 8 year old is sharp, but I don't have a lathe, and there's no way he could run it if I did. This is the moral end of it. True, I see these wheels being used, but that doesn't mean its right to me.

[ProQuest]

xntrx:

If I were you, I'd try to find a test track and see how it runs before doing anything. You MIGHT be surprised at the performance. Most rules limit the amount that you can reduce the axle diameter. For example, I believe at WIRL the pure stock division rules (those most like BSA rules) state that the axles must have a minimum diameter of .084". But if an axle with a .055" diameter is legal where you race, you might have found a real edge over the competition. Many builders will tell you that the "slop" between the wheel and axle is way too much, but I would sure check it out before going to the time and trouble of prepping another set, especially if, as you say, they run perfectly true and balanced.

Sorry, I couldn't offer more help.

ProQuest/Steve H.

[Sappington R]

XNTRX,
It's obvious that you are very knowledgeable builder and no doubt as a team with your son build fast cars. Something that seems to recur in the posts on these boards is "Moral Dilema" and where do you draw the line. I have personally battled with this question for some time- as others that have read and posted on this board will attest to. I think that it's awesome that your son spent all of that time and had the drive to improve his car- most scouts that I know do not stick with it that long. BTW congratulations on making it to council- whatever decision you make will be yours and your son's- no one else matters. Good luck at your race and keep us "posted".

[xntrx]

Thanks guys.
I am not knowledgable, just lucky.
Is there a way to test improvement without building a track? I just don't have the space, plus my wife would know I'm nuts (more so). It doesn't need to be perfect, just ballpark idea.
I doubt this much play can help, but testing would prove/ disprove that. If so, I was thinking of trying some new axles, along with a prep'd set to match od set on the oversized wheels. If I can get something decent, that would be the best mix of rework/ salvaging.
Either way, he has had enough of a taste of sucess from hard work, that from here on out it doesn't really matter. I may just downplay the problem, and let it go as is.
The moral side is a slight bit different then most. As long as he does it, and it technically is legal, its all good (all I do is lay it out, , show him how to do it on some scrap, and help him fix the "opps's"). Closely paying attention to what is being said, and applying it to actual situations is a life lesson. If he can come up with an idea and tell me if it is allowed or not, will serve him well the first contract he signs.

[ProQuest]

You could try this: get two 4' long laminate shelving boards at Lowe's or Home Depot. Connect them together length wise using a single piece of packing tape. Prop one end of one board up an inch or so, level the boards side to side (using an actual level of course), roll the car down inclined board onto the flat. Measure how far it rolls. If it rolls off the end, then lower the angle of the angled board so that the car has less momentum when it hits the flat and doesn't roll as far. Take 1/2 dozen rolls and get a average. Change wheels, axles, etc. retest, compare results.

Whatdoyathink?

ProQuest/Steve H.

[Sappington R]

xntrx,
does your pack own the track that your derby was on? If so, you and other father/son teams going to district/council are in the same position- to me, a simple solution would be to take control of that darn track! Find a place to set it up and get everyone together and work as a team. You guys may all pick up tips from each other. Sounds like you really want to win???

[xntrx]

The keeper of the track is sore. I do not have a place to keep it anyway. I may correct this by next year. Next year I would like to hold a few workshops to help those kids without a skilled parent (its bothered me since I was a kid, not their fault).
Only one other car from the pack made it past district also so not a large group to work with. My work hours limit my ability to get more then a few minutes of practice in at a time as well.
I have some drywall (full sheets), would that work?
For the experiment, we will most likely grab a spare kit, cut the slots on the top. That way he can just flip it over to test the other set. Should cut down on variables.
Our plan of attack is to have him prep a set of axles using graphite in the powdercoater, a set using slipkote, and a set using low friction anti-fouling paint (oddly I have these, dont ask). Don't have any fluoroplastic paint, and don't know of a retail source.
Is there anything that you have heard tossed around that may warrant testing?
I also have a surface friction tester at work, which may eliminate all of them before they get to the test track.
Don't really care if we win. He has done a hundred times better then last year. He has learned that effort research = results. I view solving this problem as another oppertunity to teach him more. Such as running experiements, measuring, and applying coatings. That, and I like solving problems.

[fast timz]

When you test the different coatings with your surface friction tester, post the results. Also any info on the surface friction tester machine would be helpful