Racing Leagues

[gpraceman]

Moodswing,

You made a recent and rather apt generalization of Derby Talk and the majority of its members. I started Derby Talk as a way to help the kids, via their adult partners and those that are organizing these races (again, for the kids sake). I believe that those participating in Derby Talk are helping to do just that.

Joker,

About your thread on let's work together. I encouraged Steve and Jennifer when they were starting WIRL originally. I thought it would be a good outlet for what some would call "over competitive dads", so maybe they wouldn't then be overly involved in their kid's cars. Now I have to wonder if that was such a good thing to have done. What will the impact of these racing leagues be on local races (you know, the ones for the kids)? Is it going to cause more complaints about Pinewood Derby (and other similar races) bringing out the darker side of people (of course, I mean the parents ... er... dads)? I remember reading an article on the web somewhere, of why this one person hates the Pinewood Derby, which went into this. Or, will these leagues somehow improve the level of competition for the kids’ races or at least keep dad's from going too far?

From some of the goings on between members here and has spilled over onto Derby Talk, it may very well be turning some people away from participating in these leagues. I know it is just a few people involved, but often the few can spoil things for the many. Some of us "purists" really don't like the whole eBay car seller thing, as you know, especially when the seller's performance in these leagues is being touted in their sales pitches. It does seem strange that that situation wouldn't be a burr under more saddles. I think this is another reason why some are turned off to these leagues. For these reasons, I choose not to participate in these leagues, even if I had the time to do so. I also will not be personally promoting these leagues anymore. That is not to say that WIRL and PDDR discussions are no longer welcome on Derby Talk.

It’s not that I do not see any benefits to these leagues. I do think that in the long run that these leagues may bring about some technology changes that will benefit all (like auto racing does to our personal autos). It will likely help those that participate do better at their kids races. Though, that may just make competition there more uneven than even it out.

I'm sure that there are plenty here that would disagree with my opinions on this matter. I'm not trying to stir up controversy. Though, some will not believe that. I would just hope that these leagues would somehow be able to improve things at the kid races and not make things worse. I don't know how that is possible (no, I do not pretend to have all of the answers), since not all racers will obviously participate in these leagues.

gpraceman

[Mood Swing Productions]

i respect what you have to say, however i might suggest that you go back and read with more of an open mind what i typed. what you just stated here was the point i was getting at. your site is geared towards "father-son" BSA spirit. i have zero problems or issues with it, i take my son and daughter to both these forums and read them to them almost daily. so let me try to restate my statement again. and do notice i started off my comments in the other topic, that i was generalizing.

Derby Talk = father, mother, grandad, step dad and son or daughter HELP and INFORMATION forum

Derby Works = grown ups that never grew up and still want to race toys and trick out their toys MAN STYLE.. oops and some women.. sorry spouses hahahahaha

both sites are great. both sites are helpful. both sites serve their purpose well.

hopefully this re statement will make my initial statement more clear

moodswngproduction said:

Joker you should try to understand something about Derby Talk and its users there. <and this is a generalization, i am not putting anyone down, just stating what i have read throughout the years>

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[Lucky 13]

I think WIRL and PDDR are great organizations. They are a nice outlet for us "overly competitive" dads, and theirs nothing wrong with that.

I do agree with you on the whole ebay car thing, IF the parent is buying their son a car to compete in a BSA event, it's just plain wrong, period!!but, I see no big deal with someone buying a car off ebay to compete in WIRL or PDDR, it's no different than buying a race car to compete in the NHRA or IHRA.

It's to bad that you not willing to compete in one of these leagues, your missing out on meeting some great people who are out to have a good time and some friendly competition. there might be a few bad apples(I've yet to meet any) but thats just life and it happens in any sport/hobby and if people let that stop them then we would just have to quit doing anything!
It's too bad that you will not promote these leagues to other people, they might enjoy them, I do.

[gpraceman]

Moodswing,

I wasn't in any way disagreeing with you. I thought that you made an apt generalization of both boards, not just Derby Talk. I appologize for not making that clear.

I was more focused on Derby Talk, since the purpose behind its founding led into to subject of this thread. More specifically on how these leagues will affect the kids' races.

gpraceman

[gpraceman]

lucky13pineracing said:

I see no big deal with someone buying a car off ebay to compete in WIRL or PDDR

I think you missed my point on this. It is not that people are buying cars off of eBay and racing them in these leagues (if that is happening, I have no idea). It is that at least one of these eBay sellers is personally participating in these events and then touting his results in his eBay listings.

[gpraceman]

builderjim said:

Is there a hidden message in your first post? It seems there might be and that it might be "keep the testosterone riddled CRXP off of the Derbytalk board".

Not one that I was putting in there. However, I would not disagree with your statement. The strutting, feuding and other such behavior does go against the spirit of good sportmanship that we are trying to encourage.

[Mood Swing Productions]

i think selling derby cars on ebay is OK
i think using a purchased car in competition is WRONG
i think buying ebay cars for personal use is OK
i know of no one in wirl or pddr that is buying ebay cars and racing them in these leagues.
i know there is Derby Master and the Physics teacher who both have or do participate in WIRL.
i know that Derby Master talks about his champion ship which he earned and then came back a year and half later and taught these boys a lesson hahahaha. NOT BEING MEAN HERE
i know the the Physic teacher races here and sells on ebay to, his claim is he is the fastest ebay builder. <NOT TO BE MEAN><JUST STATING PROVEN FACTS> i believe Derby Master holds that crown hands down. or so results show and prove. i mean he has been away for well over a year and came back and beat the top modified average time this year by what .025 or so. i only wish i could do that. AGAIN I AM NOT PUTTING ANYONE DOWN.

HOWEVER these two are both in business to make money. therefore in business it is good to advertise, and to advertise the positives of what you have to offer. I have a juice business, and the recent supplement craze is BLUEBERRYS ARE AN EXCELLENT FRUIT CHOICE AS AN ANTI OXIDENT FOR YOUR BODY. therefore in my store i have many articles posted for my customers to read and educate themselves with. good business to educated my customers i think. HOWEVER what the FDA does NOT say is you would need to eat 300 pounds of blueberrys a day to get any ACTUAL anti oxident effect to your body. funny huh. but guess what. i do NOT tell people that. ANOTHER example. Randy you are here talking about the positives of Derby Talk. in a small way that is to "sell" your sight in a positive light. so we all are the same, we just look different!! oh and my name is randy too. that is of no relevance though.

i am very winded now. i have typed like 3 serious commentarys in a few different threads today, with very little humor. so in order to keep my equalibrium at a level that is appropriate.


let us snot forget, butt rather remember this is all about having fun!! we are talking about toys here, expensive, time consuming toys, but still toys.

[JOKER]

Gpraceman,

My intention was never to stir up controversy.....I had one goal - and that was to spark interest in a new race to the masses. The masses happen to build thousands of BSA cars that would qualify for "pure stock" at p-d-d-r.com. There is no effort to take away from scout racing - only an effort to expand the outlets for enthusiasts to participate in.

My threads were meant to draw attention........but my posts were never insulting / negative / or arrogant. I made every effort to keep the threads on task with the intended subject. Those that are interested will participate - the others won't.

I apologize If I offended you or anyone on Derbytalk. My purpose was clear and I feel I presented it with the original intention......now it will be up to everyone to decide.

[gpraceman]

joker said:

My intention was never to stir up controversy.....to expand the outlets for enthusiasts to participate in.

My threads were meant to draw attention........but my posts were never insulting / negative / or arrogant.

I apologize If I offended you or anyone on Derbytalk. My intention was clear and I feel I presented it with the original intention......now it will be up to everyone to decide.

No offense taken at all. I agree with all of your statements, so please don't get me wrong.

Your thread about working together to promote things just got me thinking about how I no longer wish to do any of that promotion. To me, things seem to be heading in the wrong direction.

For me, my focus will always be on the kids. If it helps the kids, great, but if not, then I won't be able to support it. The jury is still out. These leagues are still getting going. Maybe, I'll change my mind in the future.

[Mood Swing Productions]

gpraceman said:

Post subject: Re: Is the world ready for WIRL? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm willing to give it a WIRL I like the concept of a year round racing league, and I hope that it gets off the ground. I don't think it will kill the PWD, but give an outlet to those hardcore pineheads out there where one race a year just isn't enough. Most of the "specialness" of a PWD race is the kid working together with an adult to build not just a car but memories, so I don't think this league would ruin that. It should also give those that aren't a part of a group, that holds a PWD type of race, the chance to participate

sound familar. ;D ;D


one more note. i went to www.dictionary.com and found out what the word APT[/i] actually means, and i found out it is a positive word!! oooopss. i did however graduate tops in my 3rd grade class on my 4th year of 3rd grade

[gpraceman]

moodswngproduction said:

sound familar. ;D ;D

So that means that someone can't ever change their mind? I am sure that you have later regretted some decisions that you have made, when you look back on them.

[Lucky 13]

I don't really see how the 30-40 people that actively participate in WIRL or PDDR are going to ruin BSA or Awana races? Do you really think we have that much influence on the THOUSANDS of pinewood derby races all over the country? I talk about WIRL with other dads at our Pack meetings and they look at me like I'm crazy! The overly competitive fathers have always been there throughout the pinewood history and they always will be wether WIRL and PDDR are around or not! Personally, the BSA Councils that are allowing huge modifications to the pinewood cars are hurting the pinewood derbys more than WIRL and PDDR combined.

[gpraceman]

lucky13pineracing said:

I don't really see how the 30-40 people that actively participate in WIRL or PDDR are going to ruin BSA or Awana races?

You are looking at the now. I am wondering about the future impact of these leagues as they grow and maybe multiply.

[RacerX]

I think what everyone is saying ALL has valid points and some thought should be put together on how we ALL can benefit from it.

# 1. Pinewood Derby is going through it's first real growth stage in 50 years. Until now the winners were secretly build behind closed doors in machine shops with special tools only available to the privileged. These were the first of the "Extreme Dad's" and this is where I got the inspiration to start Derby Worx, tools that parent and child teams can own and use to get the same type of results. Our whole foundation and mission is for the parent and child to "Build the car together" and I think there is a lot of this going on here and has brought us all together.

#2. I am not a fan of finished cars!!! But there are instances where to participate this is the only choice for some limited families (no Dad, no Mom, careers, lack of skills) but the parent wants to keep the child involved. I have seen this in other things as well and won't get on my soap box, but in some small way if the child stays interested in a program, maybe, just maybe he will be inspired to stay in school, out of trouble and away from bad influences and hopefully build a car someday with his child because he stayed in Scouts or Awana's and didn't skip a event or meeting.. These are GREAT PROGRAMS and EXCELLENT CHILDREN are the product, I hope everyone agrees with me on this!!!

#3. The web has made things happen as fast as we can punch a key!!! It has brought us all together and will bring more to join in with us and that is great, but sometimes tha ability to respond "That fast" is not good and we act in hast and anger. We need to slow down a little and absorb it all first, sometimes walk away and answer later not on the spur of the moment and this I do believe will lead to more good progression in this hobby.

This hobby is going to progress weather we like it or not, everything in life dose. GP Raceman said he is not sure it is good, but it is not up to us to decide but it is up to us to make good out of it by making wise decisions in how we use it, how we promote it and work together, and if we ALL work together we will be happier.

If WIRL or PDDR is your thing, great get busy build a car, tell a friend and hastle your buddies. If B.S.A. or Awana's is what you like, be a mentor, give a workshop or help run the race but first and fore most be a leader in this hobby, because Randy Lissano and I have given you all a stage to do it on.

Now back to Joker and Mood for our regularly scheduled Corney jokes.

Racer X
Derby Worx, Inc.

[Lucky 13]

EXCELLENT POINTS!!

[hothead]

I have read the posts on derby talk & felt things were a bit heated between the regulars from the two boards. No damage done I thought. The other site is a great way to let people know about the new class. These are two great sites that may grow closer with the new class in WIRL & PDDR. Racer X what you said was perfect. I'm racing in WIRL to sharpen my skills to have fun at the BSA derby by building and learning the skills to make a car go fast without buying a car off e-bay. Or cheating. Knowledge is power. Will WIRL & PDDR change my BSA experience. Really NO! I thought and said at one time it would. E-bay and the Derby stores on the web have already affected it. Two the the top three cars at last years race were the speed kit car from Pinecar. I would bet not a single scout parent has even heard of WIRL or PDDR. (besides me) The big picture is you cant stop progress. The leagues are building innovation in the industry. Customers want performance items and industry is there to supply them. Parents will buy and use these items unless BSA officials tell them they can't. I wish you and your site would endorse WIRL & PDDR for what they are. FUN !

[patmanruls]

hothead said:

I have read the posts on derby talk & felt things were a bit heated between the regulars from the two boards. No damage done I thought. The other site is a great way to let people know about the new class. These are two great sites that may grow closer with the new class in WIRL & PDDR. Racer X what you said was perfect. I'm racing in WIRL to sharpen my skills to have fun at the BSA derby by building and learning the skills to make a car go fast without buying a car off e-bay. Or cheating. Knowledge is power. Will WIRL & PDDR change my BSA experience. Really NO! I thought and said at one time it would. E-bay and the Derby stores on the web have already affected it. Two the the top three cars at last years race were the speed kit car from Pinecar. I would bet not a single scout parent has even heard of WIRL or PDDR. (besides me) The big picture is you cant stop progress. The leagues are building innovation in the industry. Customers want performance items and industry is there to supply them. Parents will buy and use these items unless BSA officials tell them they can't. I wish you and your site would endorse WIRL & PDDR for what they are. FUN !

well put..