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Post by 58corvette on May 10, 2004 15:58:15 GMT -6
We just had our district finals over the weekend. After winning our Pack with ease going 15-0 we felt that we had a pretty good chance at the finals. Especially considering hte margin of victory on each of the pack races. We went with a simple wedge design with a very low profile and cut out in the middle placing almost all of the weight in the rear cavity. There were 20 cars in our division. We took the first heat without losing, qualifying for the finals. This is where it gets strange. There was another car we were a bit worried about in the other heat. It did not have the best design but blistered down the track. I could tell that this was really our only competition this day. Here is how our placement in the final heat went. Race 1 - 2nd place, Race 2 - 3rd place, Race 3 - 6th place??!! ( what the *^& just happened), Race 4 - 6th place ( clearly dragging/slow ), I asked to check the car, it seemed fine, Race 5 - back to 3rd place, Race 6 - 2nd place. We finished 4th, missing 3rd by 1 point due to the two, 6th place finishes. How does a car go from 2nd to 6th, and back to 2nd again?  ?? We were in absolute shock after the race, my son was a bit bummed but gave a sincere congratulations and handshake to the 3 trophy winners. He seems to be taking this better than I am actually. I'm sure time will ease the dissapointment and this will give us motivation for next year. Maybe this was a good thing in the big picture however. If he would have won a district trophy this his first year in scouts, he may not have appreciated it like he should or given him the drive to improve for next year. Sometimes you learn more about yourself in defeat than in victory. I know I just did. Any thoughts on what happened here? 58Corvette |
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Post by JohnNC on May 11, 2004 19:58:23 GMT -6
Corvette,
Been there. . . really hurts! We ran Pack races in January and smoked everyone, probably 75 scouts, never really had a close race, won most by over a car length. Really looked forward to Districts. Had to wait for six weeks and then came March madness.
We had a very thin wedge, 3-wheeler, weight CG 1" in front of rear axle, super polished axles, matched lathed wheels, and NyOilII for lubricant. Unlike you we started off slow, cars from our Pack that we had smoked earlier were now were beating us soundly. Problem: lubrication. We didn't re-lube and the oil as good as it was kind of gunked up over the 6 weeks in storage.
In reading your post, a couple of thoughts came to mind. Was it a lubrication issue? That doesn't seem to answer fast-slow-fast as in your case. An alignment problem that got straightened out somehow? Did you monitor lane assignments? Was there any correlation between certain lanes and race times? What type of track? You mentioned place results only, what about times? Were your times fast and slow or consistent?
Sorry for the frustration. But just like you, it really fired me up for next year. My ten year old son was just excited to be there - he enjoys the racing whether he wins or loses. I'm still trying to learn this lesson.
Good luck and welcome to the board.
John
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Post by 58corvette on May 13, 2004 23:34:20 GMT -6
Hi John and thanks.
We used the pinewoodfreespeed graphite exclusively. Blasted it prior to the race. When we finished #3 race 6th place my immediate thoughts were loss of graphite and/or most likely alignment. After finishing 6th in #4 race I thought alignment for sure. I just cant figure out how #5 race finishing 3rd and then finally #6 race finishing 2nd again.
I don't think it was lane assignments as we smoked all 6 of our first heat races in each lane. I'm not sure the brand of track but it is was very nice 6 lane wooden track.
There was not a timer used in this event. Only a finish line showing a digital display 1-6 place.
In the back of my mind I am wondering if I had the axels out too far. I thought this was an advantage but it seems to me it would promote wheel wobble going down the track. I'm wondering if others tend to leave alot of room between the axel head and the wheel. Is it better to have minimal gap to force the wheel to stay straight? Our gap was appx. 1/8". Now, I'm thinking a 1/16 gap might work better. Any thoughts here?
If there is ever a stock group entered in the WIRL group, I might send this car just to see how it does.
58Corvette
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Post by PinewoodPerformance on May 14, 2004 4:38:23 GMT -6
I leave a much wider gap, but then again I do everything against conventional thinking. I press the axle against a hard surface until the wheel touches the table and the car, this leaves a nice gap, maybe double the size of the alignment tool's gap spacing. I am sure if I was running stock this wouls be bad! I am running my T-Wheels, some call them wafer or s, they have an extra wide stance and glide of of center rails without the dramatic bounce a stock wheel can throw. In my opinion the "Pinecar" Alignment Tool has a great spacer for stock cars and Outlaw Class cars alike. I can measure the spacer and get back to you tonight. Remember get too close and the wheel will bind as not every wheel (unless you are using Bill's wheel matching method) hads the same ID. SO you may vary quite a bit in the axle to hub ratio creating anti-lock breaks and if it's a front tire maybe even leaving the track if they do bind on one side, I suggest seeing if your axle holes/slots are strait with a square then check to see if your axles are strait, lastly inspect your hubs, hope this helps.
JW
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Post by RacerX on May 14, 2004 12:31:54 GMT -6
How were the cars staged?
If the start is not straight, it can kill everything, especially when the competition gets tight.
We saw this at the district championship, the starters were staging the cars poorly. You take a well alighned car and aim it at the guide strip and it is all over. Then you come back blazing the next race.
Everything counts in thousandths of a second.
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Post by JohnNC on May 14, 2004 20:55:05 GMT -6
So true Racer. It is amazing how "small" issues can make a "big" difference when each race is won or lost in the thousandths of a second. Corvette, when your car placed 6th was it in a tight/close race or was there separation between the cars? Staging can make a "big" difference.
Wheel gap issue. I have always gone with a wider gap of over 1/8". Lastest tests I have seen indicate a tighter gap of 1/16" or even 1/32" gives better results. I am going to test with a tighter gap this year and see what happens. I also liked Sssnakes analogy of skiing down a hill, straight down is faster than slalom (less distance to travel).
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Post by RacerX on May 17, 2004 12:16:07 GMT -6
Heck Yeah, it is like a good Top Fuel drag race.
Both cars can launch the same and run close, but the fastest car usually is the one that runs the straightest. You can see the loosing car usually was not down the middle of the track and took a correction, just like PWD racing.
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?? We were in absolute shock after the race, my son was a bit bummed but gave a sincere congratulations and handshake to the 3 trophy winners. He seems to be taking this better than I am actually. I'm sure time will ease the dissapointment and this will give us motivation for next year. Maybe this was a good thing in the big picture however. If he would have won a district trophy this his first year in scouts, he may not have appreciated it like he should or given him the drive to improve for next year. Sometimes you learn more about yourself in defeat than in victory. I know I just did. 
